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Who's running the Brexit Asylum?

Prof Honeydew

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
5,222
I didn't have any strong opinions about Brexit. If the Brits wanted to leave the EU, that was their business. Many of them never really accepted being members and, if that was the way they still felt after 43 years, maybe they were better off out of it even if the political and economic benefits mightn't have been what their advocates expected.

Also, I didn't take much heed of the Utopia promised by the Leave crowd or of the Armageddon threatened by the Remainders. If Britain decided to go, I thought the most likely outcome was a Norwegian arrangement where they still had access to the Single Market(including free movement) as long as they contributed their existing share of the EU's costs. In other words, not much change but no longer having a say in the decisions.

Although I thought Leave was a distinct possibility, I was still gobsmacked when it actually happened. My first reaction when the Middle England results started wiping out the London ones was "Uh oh, do they realise what they're after doing?" Even more astonishing is the realisation over the past few days that nobody on either side (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and Martin McGuinness) seems to have grasped the consequences.

The Remain side are wandering around like Bobby Ewing after he came out of the shower, either expecting a second referendum to drop from the sky or hoping the nightmare will go away if they hide the result from the Council of Ministers. The Leave side are struck with the awe of a young fella trying one experiment too many with his chemistry set.

Inside the Tories, the main preoccupation seems to be who gets to be the Patsy negotiating a withdrawal which will forever be labelled a sell-out. Labour's princes and princesses of entitlement are blaming their leader after their own constituency voters telling them unequivocally to fukk off. And both lots are deluding themselves with notions that Europe better come to its senses before it collapses without Britain.

I would have thought that reality would have set in after a few days but the leadership vacuum seems to be getting worse. The Tories are carrying on regardless with a leisurely leadership election influenced more by who's going to get shafted rather than heading up a seriously divided party and an even more seriously divided country. And no one on the Leave side wants to take responsibility for an outcome they fought so hard to bring about.

The longer this farce goes on, the more ground Britain concedes in negotiations where they are already opening with a weakened hand. If there is no one deciding where they want to go, they're in an even more precarious position.
 


benroe

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
10,767
I didn't have any strong opinions about Brexit. If the Brits wanted to leave the EU, that was their business. Many of them never really accepted being members and, if that was the way they still felt after 43 years, maybe they were better off out of it even if the political and economic benefits mightn't have been what their advocates expected.

Also, I didn't take much heed of the Utopia promised by the Leave crowd or of the Armageddon threatened by the Remainders. If Britain decided to go, I thought the most likely outcome was a Norwegian arrangement where they still had access to the Single Market(including free movement) as long as they contributed their existing share of the EU's costs. In other words, not much change but no longer having a say in the decisions.

Although I thought Leave was a distinct possibility, I was still gobsmacked when it actually happened. My first reaction when the Middle England results started wiping out the London ones was "Uh oh, do they realise what they're after doing?" Even more astonishing is the realisation over the past few days that nobody on either side (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and Martin McGuinness) seems to have grasped the consequences.

The Remain side are wandering around like Bobby Ewing after he came out of the shower, either expecting a second referendum to drop from the sky or hoping the nightmare will go away if they hide the result from the Council of Ministers. The Leave side are struck with the awe of a young fella trying one experiment too many with his chemistry set.

Inside the Tories, the main preoccupation seems to be who gets to be the Patsy negotiating a withdrawal which will forever be labelled a sell-out. Labour's princes and princesses of entitlement are blaming their leader after their own constituency voters telling them unequivocally to fukk off. And both lots are deluding themselves with notions that Europe better come to its senses before it collapses without Britain.

I would have thought that reality would have set in after a few days but the leadership vacuum seems to be getting worse. The Tories are carrying on regardless with a leisurely leadership election influenced more by who's going to get shafted rather than heading up a seriously divided party and an even more seriously divided country. And no one on the Leave side wants to take responsibility for an outcome they fought so hard to bring about.

The longer this farce goes on, the more ground Britain concedes in negotiations where they are already opening with a weakened hand. If there is no one deciding where they want to go, they're in an even more precarious position.
I think they are still in shock, the vast majority of politicians, corporate bosses and heads of state advocated for the remain side and despite the lack of any particularly competent or authoritative voices for exit they lost.
I think political parties are going to have learn to deal with an ever more unpredictable electorate that has lost all faith in their major decision making capabilities.
 

Accidental sock

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
4,184
I think they are still in shock, the vast majority of politicians, corporate bosses and heads of state advocated for the remain side and despite the lack of any particularly competent or authoritative voices for exit they lost.
I think political parties are going to have learn to deal with an ever more unpredictable electorate that has lost all faith in their major decision making capabilities.
Add to that,one doesn't get the impression that the 'leave' advocates ever really expected to win. We seem to have leaders (small 'l') from both sides wandering around asking 'what now?'.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
No one, not even the exiters anticipated this, Boris saw a vehicle for Boris hoping for a good show that could be used as a platform for his tilt at the leadership.

He is now forced to do so with the very real possibility of being the man that oversaw the dissolution of the UK.

Bravo!
 

benroe

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
10,767
Add to that,one doesn't get the impression that the 'leave' advocates ever really expected to win. We seem to have leaders (small 'l') from both sides wandering around asking 'what now?'.
I dont think it makes any difference whether or not they expected to win, but you have to wonder how big the margin would have been had the exit side had a charismatic authoritative leader.
 
O

Oscurito

It's an utter shambles and the party-centered navel gazing and disgraceful lack of patriotism is nothing short of astonishing.

I've seen critiques here of our political class. The UK equivalent (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP) makes ours look quite focused and efficacious.
 

Catalpast

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
26,197
I dont think it makes any difference whether or not they expected to win, but you have to wonder how big the margin would have been had the exit side had a charismatic authoritative leader.
They had Boris and Nigel

- what more could they have asked for?:cool:

Remain had an aging Irish 'rock' star and that dreadful Scottish woman....:?
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
I didn't have any strong opinions about Brexit. If the Brits wanted to leave the EU, that was their business. Many of them never really accepted being members and, if that was the way they still felt after 43 years, maybe they were better off out of it even if the political and economic benefits mightn't have been what their advocates expected.

Also, I didn't take much heed of the Utopia promised by the Leave crowd or of the Armageddon threatened by the Remainders. If Britain decided to go, I thought the most likely outcome was a Norwegian arrangement where they still had access to the Single Market(including free movement) as long as they contributed their existing share of the EU's costs. In other words, not much change but no longer having a say in the decisions.

Although I thought Leave was a distinct possibility, I was still gobsmacked when it actually happened. My first reaction when the Middle England results started wiping out the London ones was "Uh oh, do they realise what they're after doing?" Even more astonishing is the realisation over the past few days that nobody on either side (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and Martin McGuinness) seems to have grasped the consequences.

The Remain side are wandering around like Bobby Ewing after he came out of the shower, either expecting a second referendum to drop from the sky or hoping the nightmare will go away if they hide the result from the Council of Ministers. The Leave side are struck with the awe of a young fella trying one experiment too many with his chemistry set.

Inside the Tories, the main preoccupation seems to be who gets to be the Patsy negotiating a withdrawal which will forever be labelled a sell-out. Labour's princes and princesses of entitlement are blaming their leader after their own constituency voters telling them unequivocally to fukk off. And both lots are deluding themselves with notions that Europe better come to its senses before it collapses without Britain.

I would have thought that reality would have set in after a few days but the leadership vacuum seems to be getting worse. The Tories are carrying on regardless with a leisurely leadership election influenced more by who's going to get shafted rather than heading up a seriously divided party and an even more seriously divided country. And no one on the Leave side wants to take responsibility for an outcome they fought so hard to bring about.

The longer this farce goes on, the more ground Britain concedes in negotiations where they are already opening with a weakened hand. If there is no one deciding where they want to go, they're in an even more precarious position.
I agree.

we need someone in charge or someone who can give the impression of being in charge

Some of the market volatility is caused by the uncertainty and the vacuum at the top.

Britain seems rudderless, adrift, dithering about whether to trigger Article 50, rabbit in headlights, the Brexiteers all in hiding, the doom-merchants given free rein, the opposition tearing itself apart, the Tories fiddling while Rome burns.

There is no calm, familiar voice to address the nation and calm fears.

There was a British Leave economist talking on RTE--Gerard Lyons-who articulated the Brexit position calmly and well, and had a plan for the future.

Even if one doesn't agree with him, one can't help regretting that there is nobody like him in government to step up to the plate.

But yes, at the moment it does indeed feel like there is nobody in charge of the asylum.

Somebody needs to get a grip on the situation and make a few decisions.
 

Irish-Rationalist

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
3,337
The longer this farce goes on, the more ground Britain concedes in negotiations where they are already opening with a weakened hand. If there is no one deciding where they want to go, they're in an even more precarious position.
They have an extremely strong hand, as they have just told the EU to f*** off, but no-one wants to be the arm. No-one, not even the Brexiters themselves expected to win this. It was a shock to everyone, but the result revealed the deep well of dissatisfaction that the majority of English people outside of hyper-multicultural London had been experiencing for a long time. The result was two fingers up to the political elite establishment, the big businesses, the multinational corporations and the fat cats in general. It was the little people finally rising and taking their country back, and it was absolutely beautiful.

Brexit has thrown a colossal spanner in the works, and in Ireland it has catalysed Irish Nationalist aspiration in the north, which is only a positive.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
the prime minister
Someone else can clean up this shít, Cameron's alleged words to an aide as he asked for a resignation speech to be drawn up.

A big Fvck you Boris.
 

lostexpectation

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
14,127
Website
dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Someone else can clean up this shít, Cameron's alleged words to an aide as he asked for a resignation speech to be drawn up.

A big Fvck you Boris.
the prime minister is the the prime minister and the buck stops with the prime minister, hes the one that called the referendum
 

niall78

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
11,285
It's an utter shambles and the party-centered navel gazing and disgraceful lack of patriotism is nothing short of astonishing.

I've seen critiques here of our political class. The UK equivalent (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP) makes ours look quite focused and efficacious.
This situation is unprecedented. I've never seen a country implode like this over so little. Can anyone think of anything similar in the last fifty years?
 

eoghanacht

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Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
the prime minister is the the prime minister and the buck stops with the prime minister, hes the one that called the referendum
Absolutely but the resignation was a bold move anything else and he was a wet fish on dry land he volleyed it right back and Boris might be about to choke on it.

Dave's name wasn't going to be associated with the ending of the UK, fvck that there's a hell of a lot of social engagement that would dry up, let Boris run the gauntlet.

Well played Dave you bluenose Tory cvnt.
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,783
They have an extremely strong hand, as they have just told the EU to f*** off, but no-one wants to be the arm. No-one, not even the Brexiters themselves expected to win this. It was a shock to everyone, but the result revealed the deep well of dissatisfaction that the majority of English people outside of hyper-multicultural London had been experiencing for a long time. The result was two fingers up to the political elite establishment, the big businesses, the multinational corporations and the fat cats in general. It was the little people finally rising and taking their country back, and it was absolutely beautiful.

Brexit has thrown a colossal spanner in the works, and in Ireland it has catalysed Irish Nationalist aspiration in the north, which is only a positive.
How is the UK position strong?

And if it is, why isn't Johnson pushing Cameron to resign now?
 

Pabilito

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Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
5,635
Two diametrically opposed headings straight from RTE website just now:

No talks until Brexit process begins - EU leaders

Cameron aims to secure 'the best deal' for Britain

With no talks there’ll be no deals.. The EU are rightly pushing this British problem back to the British..
 

eoghanacht

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Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
Two leading headings straight from RTE website just now:

No talks until Brexit process begins - EU leaders

Cameron aims to secure 'the best deal' for Britain

With no talks there’ll be no deals.. The EU are rightly pushing this British problem back to the British..

Yep trigger article 50 before we sit down.

It's squeaky bum time in NO. 10

Back to you in the studio.
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
It's an utter shambles and the party-centered navel gazing and disgraceful lack of patriotism is nothing short of astonishing.

I've seen critiques here of our political class. The UK equivalent (with the exception of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP) makes ours look quite focused and efficacious.

I agree. The inward-looking, self-involved power-jockeying of both Labour and the Tories while outside the walls a fire is raging, are very unedifying.

I do not blame Cameron for stepping down, but I was sick at the sight of him today in the Commons, demob happy, laughing and joking about Labour's problems while his country and its citizens are in a state of anxiety and disarray.
Boris didn't show up in the Commons at all.

Britain needs a new Prime Minister urgently, or an interim one--not just Cameron's Brexit negotiating unit--to lead the country and to calm fears.

Very unpatriotic behaviour from the lot of them in their country's hour of need.
 

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