Why are there asylum seekers from South Africa?

Lumpy Talbot

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I would be quite interested in data on migration patterns. My suspicion is that a certain amount of asylum seekers tipping up in Ireland are people who have moved from the UK as they exhaust the appeals system there.

Certainly and famously there are no direct flights between Ireland and Nigeria so quite why and how these forgetful travellers pitch up in Ireland and are allowed to make an asylum claim without explanation of how they reached the state should be halted immediately.

Uncooperative answers to such questions should mean automatic exclusion from the asylum process.

If someone wants to claim from the state and refuses to answer questions in the social welfare office then their application doesn't proceed.

I don't see why it should be any different with asylum claims. And I am aware there is a mini-industry among solicitors and hotel owners who require such characters in order to fill out their payslips.
 


atkin8

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Not really - we've asylum seekers from SA here in DP for years before the authorities determine they really have no right to be here, and then there's the appeals process so they're here for another few years.

Surely the initial triage should be based on the fact that we just shouldn't take asylum seekers from SA.
The fact that they can enter Ireland visa free must be questioned if asylum claims increase .
 

CatullusV

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Not really - we've asylum seekers from SA here in DP for years before the authorities determine they really have no right to be here, and then there's the appeals process so they're here for another few years.

Surely the initial triage should be based on the fact that we just shouldn't take asylum seekers from SA.
Not at all. International asylum law is based around the right of an individual to claim asylum and to have their claim assessed based on the persecution they claim may result if they be deported.

Two of the most prominent asylum seekers of late were seeking protection from being back to Sweden/USA in one case, and, in Snowden's case, the USA alone.

A claim of asylum can only be judged at the level of the individual.
 

Finbar10

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Obviously, most of the applications from some countries are bogus. There has been a spike in Pakistani, South African and Georgian (places like Albania too) in the past few years. Recently, I think there were some arrests and convictions for a Georgian-based migration scam. Seemingly, Ireland was a good holding location (asylum process not going to go anywhere fast) until migrants could vanish into the UK. Similarly, for Pakistani applications. Many are probably the outflow from tightened controls in the UK. I suppose there also was the Latvian bride route, which was only really closed down recently. Then, there was the story not so long ago of the regional immigration officer (a designated Garda, working alone and unsupervised, as seems to be the case for regional immigration officers) who had issued up to a thousand working visa stamps to Pakistanis and Indians over several years, seemingly for €10,000 a pop (split 50-50 with some fixer). That story vanished without trace since then though! :) While there might be the odd case from South Africa that might be genuine, by and large you'd have to think these are mostly people chancing their arm. The system is rather perverse. People who are often relatively well educated, middle-class and able stuck in limbo for years (with nobody but the lawyers benefiting). Should be fast decisions and/or properly structured points-based economic migration schemes from some of these countries. I suppose many are hoping that by stringing things out for years they'll eventually end up with leave to remain on humanitarian grounds (perhaps they are right).
 
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CatullusV

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I would be quite interested in data on migration patterns. My suspicion is that a certain amount of asylum seekers tipping up in Ireland are people who have moved from the UK as they exhaust the appeals system there.

Certainly and famously there are no direct flights between Ireland and Nigeria so quite why and how these forgetful travellers pitch up in Ireland and are allowed to make an asylum claim without explanation of how they reached the state should be halted immediately.

Uncooperative answers to such questions should mean automatic exclusion from the asylum process.

If someone wants to claim from the state and refuses to answer questions in the social welfare office then their application doesn't proceed.

I don't see why it should be any different with asylum claims. And I am aware there is a mini-industry among solicitors and hotel owners who require such characters in order to fill out their payslips.
So far as I am aware the concept of "first footfall" doesn't apply to airport transition areas, which is why you pass through without showing a passport.

It makes sense. It allows the authorities to wave people through to another destination.
 

Dame_Enda

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CNN had a special report this morning on a scandal of Kenyans faking identities as Somalis in order to gain asylum in the West.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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CNN had a special report this morning on a scandal of Kenyans faking identities as Somalis in order to gain asylum in the West.
Migration-friendly liberals tend to ignore the completely unsustainable "end game" if Europe turns a blind eye to asylum seekers from Africa.

That continent's population is growing faster than any other's and something like 20% of Africans believe they will seek a better life in Europe, so that's effectively 10m Africans a year believe they will migrate to Europe.
 

atkin8

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Have you ever spent a moment there? It's a fūcking dangerous place. In my times there I had to leave the safe spots. It is one thing to go there on holiday, and another thing entirely to live there.

The cops demand that homeowners have guns. Without them owning arms they are on their own.

Leave your bedroom and experience life outside it.
I have been in SA its dangerous but then many areas in so called safe countries are dangerous . To include a high level of crime as being a reason for asylum seeking would surely open the flood gates further . There are even areas of Dublin that have a high crime rate .
 
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locke

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South Africa isn't a very uniform country when it comes to functioning of democratic institutions and experiences of a holiday in the Western Cape won't tell the whole story.

Generally, the Western Cape, Northern Cape, Free State and Gauteng are fine.

The Eastern Cape and North-West suffer from some levels of police corruption (the kind where you pay your traffic fine to the officer at the side of the road), but are not over-problematic.

KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Limpopo are a completely different story with interference in the electoral process, bulk-vote-buying, political interference in the prosecuting authority, police use of torture, right up to political murders being present.

It's very believable that people from South Africa may need asylum. Could they get what they need by just moving within the country? Probably.
 

Northsideman

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CatullusV

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I have been in SA its dangerous but then many areas in so called safe countries are dangerous . To include a high level of crime as being a reason for asylum seeking would surely open the flood gates further . There are even areas of Dublin that have a high crime rate .
Just as well, that crime levels in a country of origin are not the determining factor in an asylum plea. The request is based solely on the prospects of the asylum seeker and the potential that they may face persecution if deported.

It really is that simple.
 

omgsquared

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South Africa has considerable sway on the Continent of Africa. If most countries accepted asylum seekers from SA those seeking asylum would be sent back.

You're not the one who determines the legitimacy of any asylum request, and certainly not when you have none of the facts of this or any other case.

The crime rate is not the issue that would come under consideration, in any event. An applicant needs to demonstrate that they would face threats if returned.
I fear that the Irish authorities who decide on asylum requests are not equipped in terms of knowledge of the continent or the context of the countries of origin of the asylum seekers from Africa to make sound rational and informed decision regarding asylum applications.

In the case of South Africa there may be a case for granting asylum to white South Africans particularly those in rural farming communities however for the rest very little justification.

I recently listened to a woman who claimed to be Zimbabwean , but who could not speak Shona or Ndebele and on her LinkedIn profile mentioned her languages as Xhosa and Sotho , who had spent 4 years working in Sth Africa prior to coming to Ireland seeking asylum. She is not Zimbabwean although she may be married to one as one part of her double barrel name is Sibanda but how can she claim asylum when she spent 4 years in Sth. Africa . She is now here with three children , all being educated at Irish tax payers expense on a full time sanctuary scholarship at Limerick University , playing the system and game and probably running her own NGO, a complete hoax asylum seeker.

I have a former admin assistant of mine from Zimbabwe who left a good job in Zim with a UN agency, and came to Ireland claimed asylum , found an Irish guy , married him and now has an Irish passport , Another complete hoax asylum seeker.

I have come across asylum seekers from the DRC who manage to return there each year on holidays but who are supposedly fleeing for their lives. They came originally from Kinshasa. It is safer in Kinshasa than Dublin.

I speak Swahili and listed to two guys on a recent ET fly talking about their business interests “ Biashara Kifdogo “ while they collect every social benefit and are in direct provision again milking the system..

The only direct flt. to Ireland from Africa is through Addis. Yet we accept asylum applications from people who have spent years in other countries often in Europe before claiming asylum. Even when Asylum applications are refused they are seldom deported.

I have said it before. It can be difficult and a lengthy process to obtain planning permission for a house in Ireland yet decisions are being on issue such as immigration that are and will have irreversible impact on society without any debate or for that matter without any consideration as to whether it is in the interests of the Irish people.

The so called rise of intolerance on both sides is a result of the failure to have that debate and recognize the fact that Ireland and the services it offers and its nonfunctioning asylum system, direct provision, it’s access to health and education is a hell of a lot better than living in hut in a township or a rural ares in Africa where most of the continent still shit in a long drop and fetch their water in a bucket, while the rich of those countries rob and loot. their own,. OBTW it is not the poor from those countries that arrive on our shores it is often the relations of the same people who are involved in the looting..
 

yosef shompeter

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It is discouraging to hear (admittedly anecdotal evidence) of many people scamming the system. -- What system? it seems like a chaotic one built on trust alone :(
It's also exasperating the way the Irish press and media treat matters of crime and "newly-arriveds" so gingerly.
Compare the attitude of the Irish and their desperate attempts "not to sound racist" and "not to discriminate" with two statements just today from two big world leaders:
1]. Trump pointed out that the Turkish invasion of Syria is not all that bad. While it's true that the thousands of Isis prisoners of war may be released, they will end up in Europe.
-- I kid you not.
2]. Erdogan threatened the EU with opening the floodgates with 3.6million refugees a second time if then pesky Europeans dared to criticize him for invading Syria.
The chasm separating attitudes is kind of stark.
 

yosef shompeter

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I fear that the Irish authorities who decide on asylum requests are not equipped in terms of knowledge of the continent or the context of the countries of origin of the asylum seekers from Africa to make sound rational and informed decision regarding asylum applications.

In the case of South Africa there may be a case for granting asylum to white South Africans particularly those in rural farming communities however for the rest very little justification.

I recently listened to a woman who claimed to be Zimbabwean , but who could not speak Shona or Ndebele and on her LinkedIn profile mentioned her languages as Xhosa and Sotho , who had spent 4 years working in Sth Africa prior to coming to Ireland seeking asylum. She is not Zimbabwean although she may be married to one as one part of her double barrel name is Sibanda but how can she claim asylum when she spent 4 years in Sth. Africa . She is now here with three children , all being educated at Irish tax payers expense on a full time sanctuary scholarship at Limerick University , playing the system and game and probably running her own NGO, a complete hoax asylum seeker.

I have a former admin assistant of mine from Zimbabwe who left a good job in Zim with a UN agency, and came to Ireland claimed asylum , found an Irish guy , married him and now has an Irish passport , Another complete hoax asylum seeker.

I have come across asylum seekers from the DRC who manage to return there each year on holidays but who are supposedly fleeing for their lives. They came originally from Kinshasa. It is safer in Kinshasa than Dublin.

I speak Swahili and listed to two guys on a recent ET fly talking about their business interests “ Biashara Kifdogo “ while they collect every social benefit and are in direct provision again milking the system..

The only direct flt. to Ireland from Africa is through Addis. Yet we accept asylum applications from people who have spent years in other countries often in Europe before claiming asylum. Even when Asylum applications are refused they are seldom deported.

I have said it before. It can be difficult and a lengthy process to obtain planning permission for a house in Ireland yet decisions are being on issue such as immigration that are and will have irreversible impact on society without any debate or for that matter without any consideration as to whether it is in the interests of the Irish people.

The so called rise of intolerance on both sides is a result of the failure to have that debate and recognize the fact that Ireland and the services it offers and its nonfunctioning asylum system, direct provision, it’s access to health and education is a hell of a lot better than living in hut in a township or a rural ares in Africa where most of the continent still shit in a long drop and fetch their water in a bucket, while the rich of those countries rob and loot. their own,. OBTW it is not the poor from those countries that arrive on our shores it is often the relations of the same people who are involved in the looting..
It is discouraging to hear (admittedly anecdotal evidence) of many people scamming the system. -- What system? it seems like a chaotic one built on trust alone :(
It's also exasperating the way the Irish press and media treat matters of crime and "newly-arriveds" so gingerly.
Compare the attitude of the Irish and their desperate attempts "not to sound racist" and "not to discriminate" with two statements just today from two big world leaders:
1]. Trump pointed out that the Turkish invasion of Syria is not all that bad. While it's true that the thousands of Isis prisoners of war may be released, they will end up in Europe.
-- I kid you not.
2]. Erdogan threatened the EU with opening the floodgates with 3.6million refugees a second time if them pesky Europeans dared to criticize him for invading Syria.
The chasm separating Irish attitudes and US/Turkish attitudes is kind of stark.
Sorry -- a bit off topic. This should be dealing with South African entitlements to refugee status.
But suffice to say, the Irish government's vacant hands-off policy has meant that thousands of people are drawing from the state and with questionable justification . Sooner or later compassion-fatigue will seep in and this could hurt people who really do need our help and our shelter.
 

Kevin Parlon

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If someone wants to claim from the state and refuses to answer questions in the social welfare office then their application doesn't proceed.
I quite often find myself commenting that Ireland "isn't a serious country". Why? Well, yet another example is that in Australia, the law is that if you turn up without ID (unless you're claiming to be from a designated war-zone/emergency area), the authorities have the right to assume in their adjudication that you are attempting to deceive. Did wonders for airplane toilet systems and general passport discipline. In Ireland, there has grown up around the organs of state that deal with our asylum obligations a clinging, incestuous mass of academics, NGOs and activist-lawyers and others who are all of the same opinion. They have appointed themselves as guardians of the discussion and adjudicators of what one may or may not say about asylum. This "grouping" was visible swinging into action recently when Grealish foolishly believed he was entitled to accurately characterize much of our asylees.
 


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