Why are they pushing the bailout be signed off so quick?

Old Irish

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I just seen on RTE.ie that the IMF are pushing us to sign off on this bailout by the weekend. I have to admit I am really nervous about this. All this talk about us being better off defaulting is making me so indecisive about what I think is best for the country. To a large extent I would agree about the default but only if we had some prospect of jobs, growth. If we had some indigineous manufacturing ANYTHING! but we don't so if we default and we have no prospect of borrowing then where does that leave us?

On the other hand I don't think we can borrow our way out of this mess either.

Where are you all on this one?
 


truthisfree

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Default or spend several generations paying back faceless bankers, having said that, there is no way this gutless government is going to do anything but tug the forelock to their "betters" in Brussels, sorry mate, I have given up on anything any good ever emerging from this country apart from emigration itself. :(
 

Furze

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If we default, the Greeks etc will also - end of Euro.

The old administration who got us to this point do not have the peoples authority to sign off. Well and good if following an election or referendum we sign.

The momentum not to sign is building as I await the bye election result.
 

Padraigin

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I just seen on RTE.ie that the IMF are pushing us to sign off on this bailout by the weekend. I have to admit I am really nervous about this. All this talk about us being better off defaulting is making me so indecisive about what I think is best for the country. To a large extent I would agree about the default but only if we had some prospect of jobs, growth. If we had some indigineous manufacturing ANYTHING! but we don't so if we default and we have no prospect of borrowing then where does that leave us?

On the other hand I don't think we can borrow our way out of this mess either.

Where are you all on this one?


If the IMF is pushing to have the Irish government agree to accept this devasting loan package by the weekend, this would be an indication that even the IMF knows that a default is what any reasonable government would do under the circumstances - and that no reasonable government would accept the kind of killer debt that the IMF is peddling if they were thinking straight. The IMF is trying to close this deal before anyone in the Irish government sobers up.

The IMF is interested in one thing and one thing only - an announcement of a "deal" on the Irish debt situation that will temporarily calm the financial markets. That is all they care about.

Beggaring the Irish people for generations to come and destroying the Irish economy means nothing to the IMF so long as they can get some short term stability for the euro.
 

michaelo

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If they sign the deal this weekend, then can they call an election immediately after this? I thought the budget was some sort or prerequisite for the bailout?
 

Easy-Irish

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It is known as The Shock Doctrine. Stun the population, then force through an entire raft of pre-selected measures very rapidly before the citizenry knows what's hit them.
 

msteiner

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They're basically just forcing as much s*** through the crapper before it gets stuck and an election must be called. It's an old progressive trick.
 

NascentCube

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I just seen on RTE.ie that the IMF are pushing us to sign off on this bailout by the weekend. I have to admit I am really nervous about this. All this talk about us being better off defaulting is making me so indecisive about what I think is best for the country. To a large extent I would agree about the default but only if we had some prospect of jobs, growth. If we had some indigineous manufacturing ANYTHING! but we don't so if we default and we have no prospect of borrowing then where does that leave us?
With respect, your horizons are to narrow, the danger isn't Ireland the danger is the Euro. The European Stability Fund that Ireland is drawing down upon was never intended to be used. Just the shear amount of money available was meant to calm the markets and mean all Eurozone peripheral countries would have some time to sort themselves out. This hasn't happened, the markets have decided that Ireland will default and have reacted accordingly.

This is putting tremendous pressure on Portugal and Spain. The EU may bailout Portugal but Spain will be impossible. Germany is deeply indebted if you consider it's ageing population and would not be able to afford to bail out a country the size of Spain, if Spain goes then the Euro goes and so does the EU.

Every day of market uncertainty makes this more likely, we are in very real danger of this happening now and hence the IMF urgency. This is why you have all these EU officials saying that the Euro failing is unthinkable, the markets are definitely thinking it. If the Euro fails then the world economey is destroyed leading to civil unrest and conflict. Read history and you'll see it is true.

Bear in mind, in Germany a court case questioning the constitutional legality of the loans that Germany has been making to the Eurozone is due to finish. It may well find that these loans have been made illegally because it quite clearly states in the formation of the Euro that no bailouts will be considered for Euro-member states and two have occured already. If they do this will prevent Germany pumping any more money into bailouts and that dooms the Euro as well.

Ireland is caught in a macro-economic mire, the Euro is an extremely poor fit for the Irish economy, much better would be the Punt pegged to Sterling. However, that is not where we are. Everything Ireland can realistically do on the micro-economic side, such as the Austerity Budget, is just playing around the edges but quitting the Euro would be extremely difficult too. It is no simple matter creating and launching a currency and Ireland would find it almost impossible while laden with debt. Ireland cannot default as this would destablise the Euro overnight.

In short, there is no way out, what ever happens now will happen and the chances of it ending even mildly happily is getting slimmer every day this uncertainty carries on. This is why the Euro NO vote was so important back in 2001.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Because the vitality of the Global Financial System depends on us. If we don't accept the bailout, contagion 3 times the size of Lehman Bros is set loose.

Spain is 10 Lehman Bros. Kaboom.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Hence why we should dictate the terms
 

Social Conscience

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As I sit my grandkids on my knee in the year 2050, I'll be able to tell them about the days when the Irish people had a say in how things in this country were run. They may not understand as we had it so good in their view and didn't have to work a basic week of 55 hours a week at a base tax rate of 35%..................
 

Old Irish

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With respect, your horizons are to narrow, the danger isn't Ireland the danger is the Euro. The European Stability Fund that Ireland is drawing down upon was never intended to be used. Just the shear amount of money available was meant to calm the markets and mean all Eurozone peripheral countries would have some time to sort themselves out. This hasn't happened, the markets have decided that Ireland will default and have reacted accordingly.

This is putting tremendous pressure on Portugal and Spain. The EU may bailout Portugal but Spain will be impossible. Germany is deeply indebted if you consider it's ageing population and would not be able to afford to bail out a country the size of Spain, if Spain goes then the Euro goes and so does the EU.

Every day of market uncertainty makes this more likely, we are in very real danger of this happening now and hence the IMF urgency. This is why you have all these EU officials saying that the Euro failing is unthinkable, the markets are definitely thinking it. If the Euro fails then the world economey is destroyed leading to civil unrest and conflict. Read history and you'll see it is true.

Bear in mind, in Germany a court case questioning the constitutional legality of the loans that Germany has been making to the Eurozone is due to finish. It may well find that these loans have been made illegally because it quite clearly states in the formation of the Euro that no bailouts will be considered for Euro-member states and two have occured already. If they do this will prevent Germany pumping any more money into bailouts and that dooms the Euro as well.

Ireland is caught in a macro-economic mire, the Euro is an extremely poor fit for the Irish economy, much better would be the Punt pegged to Sterling. However, that is not where we are. Everything Ireland can realistically do on the micro-economic side, such as the Austerity Budget, is just playing around the edges but quitting the Euro would be extremely difficult too. It is no simple matter creating and launching a currency and Ireland would find it almost impossible while laden with debt. Ireland cannot default as this would destablise the Euro overnight.

In short, there is no way out, what ever happens now will happen and the chances of it ending even mildly happily is getting slimmer every day this uncertainty carries on. This is why the Euro NO vote was so important back in 2001.
You certainly have some very interesting points. Personally speaking I don't think there is any chance this government won't accept the bailout and allow a default.
The thing is your post has made me even worse because now I'm thinking about the scenario of us accepting the bailout but Spain defaulting and we are left with a bailout and a bust! It just doesn't bare thinking about really.
 

ALAN42

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Ireland is small and it can be contained .

German health may hurt euro

Newly emboldened by what one minister has termed Germany's ''golden autumn'', German Chancellor Angela Merkel has hardened her rhetoric during the past month. An increasingly uncompromising approach to the future of the euro area is being adopted.

Bondholders in insolvent banks, she insists, should be made to take immediate haircuts and she appears in favour of applying a similar approach to sovereign debt as early as next year.

She also wants treaty changes to allow for the voluntary departure or enforced expulsion of nations from the euro. In any case, Ms Merkel seems absolutely determined that Germans won't be made to pay for the folly of the periphery
Lump it or leave it, has become the German approach; live with Teutonic economic and financial disciplines or get out. You kind of wonder whether there is any point to the single currency if all notion of joint and several liability is abandoned, and it becomes, in effect, just a way of pegging other currencies to the Deutschmark, but that's where we seem to be heading
Germany is telling the markets that Ireland can go and sing for its supper .
 

hibernian56

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Obviously the IMF and ilk will be trying to say, as they have already stated, that any deal is with the STATE and not the administration.

Tweedle dumb & Tweedle dee will want to sign things off, as I believe they have most likely done a "no investigation" deal as part of the package. Interest rate, who cares, once they don't do time.

Anyway, on a lighter note, one less of the establishment to worry about. Well done SF.
YouTube - Jessy Dixon & Yolanda Adams - Gone at Last
 

ulsterscotnua

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Surely our constitution should not allow whoever is "negotiating" on our behalf to sign off the deal on behalf of us all.
If negotiations close, conveniently on Sunday, to suit the lenders and the markets, then if our negotiators are happy they should sign it subject to the acceptance of the people. A referendum should be held as as possible so that we know what we are in for.
 


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