Why be self employed or own a small company in this country?

robut

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As Enda once said, Ireland is a great small country to do business in.

I wonder about this on a regular basis.

I have been self employed / have a small one man company for too long. I just about make a living, sometimes not.

Between the stress, not huge renumeration relative, the ups and downs of trade. Plus the one size fits all nature that banks, authorites and revenue treat, self employed, small biz vs large firms & even FDI .. I wonder sometimes whats the point. Add to that minimal support from these outfits once you are setup. Sometimes you look on and feel like revenue earn more from your small biz than you do :D .. Your reward for being straight is you pay more and more ..

In my case i have known nothing else, never worked for anyone else. I will say for some reason I have found it more difficult in last two years for some reason than even during the bust. This year particularly has been strange, I have heard same from other small biz too, overly quiet etc

Then you have the public sector demands for more wage. Fair dues, I am not knocking them. Its just that out here in self employed, small biz land this will not happen .. strike is not an option :D

I saw somewhere recently that self employed / small companies have been on the increase here. In alot of cases apparently because these people had no other choice.

So interested to hear from other small biz, one person ops, self employed people here.

Do YOU find it a great small country to do business in? Do you reach a point sometimes, with all the hassle is it actually worth it?

On a positive note - What could and should be done to make it a great small country to do business in?

( Im out beyond the pale :D )

EDIT - By small Business i mean one person, two person operations - around that. Self employed obviously one person. Local small business in towns and villages around the country.

Im not talking of less than 100 startup outfits in Dublins tech sector.
 
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YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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As Enda once said, Ireland is a great small country to do business in.

I wonder about this on a regular basis.

I have been self employed / have a small one man company for too long. I just about make a living, sometimes not.

Between the stress, not huge renumeration relative, the ups and downs of trade. Plus the one size fits all nature that banks, authorites and revenue treat self employed, small biz vs large firms & even FDI .. I wonder sometimes whats the point. Sometimes you look on and feel like revenue earn more from your small biz than you do ...

In my case i have known nothing else, never worked for anyone else. I will say for some reason I have found it more difficult in last two years for some reason than even during the bust. This year particularly has been strange, I have heard same from other small biz too, overly quiet etc

Then you have the public sector demands for more wage. Fair dues, I am not knocking them. Its just that out here in self employed, small biz land this will not happen .. strike is not an option :D

So interested to hear from other small biz, one person ops, self employed people here.

Do YOU find it a great small country to do business in? Do you reach a point sometimes, with all the hassle is it actually worth it?

On a positive note - What could and should be done to make it a great small country to do business in?

( Im out beyond the pale :D )
what do mean by small like? once you can do profit shifting you're flying. say goodbye to paying tax in Ireland.
 

robut

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By small Business i mean one person, two person operations - around that. Self employed obviously one person. Local small business in towns and villages around the country.

Im not talking of less than 100 startup outfits in Dublins tech sector. Just plain small outfits all over the country in our towns, villages and smaller cities .. as they call it the back bone of our economy - the local small business
 

captain obvious

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I fall into that category on occasion and I ask myself that very same question (just about to take the plunge again). Between accountants, audits, employers PRSI, general red-tape and the point where it is impossible to expense anything it is border line not worth it.
And that is before you get into the lack of protection when/if things go belly up. I remember having a one-sided conversation with a bank employee five years ago where she was insisting that I wind my contracting vehicle up before I could enter into any income protection draw down with the bank.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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AOI has not had any employees for 33 years. back in 2014 it had 2 directors and 1 officer, all Apple Inc. brass. tis what I call small.
 

robut

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Ah now YKWIML .. you actually do know what I mean here :D

Honest to god small biz and self employed just trying to make a living and get on with it .. and BTW costing the state nothing because of it, as captain says, even if they go bust they cost the state nothing ..

Is it worth it? What level would you need to be at for it to be worth it?

I am also talking here about doing business straight, not black economy ..
 

Mad as Fish

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As Enda once said, Ireland is a great small country to do business in.

I wonder about this on a regular basis.

I have been self employed / have a small one man company for too long. I just about make a living, sometimes not.

Between the stress, not huge renumeration relative, the ups and downs of trade. Plus the one size fits all nature that banks, authorites and revenue treat, self employed, small biz vs large firms & even FDI .. I wonder sometimes whats the point. Add to that minimal support from these outfits once you are setup. Sometimes you look on and feel like revenue earn more from your small biz than you do :D

In my case i have known nothing else, never worked for anyone else. I will say for some reason I have found it more difficult in last two years for some reason than even during the bust. This year particularly has been strange, I have heard same from other small biz too, overly quiet etc

Then you have the public sector demands for more wage. Fair dues, I am not knocking them. Its just that out here in self employed, small biz land this will not happen .. strike is not an option :D

I saw somewhere recently that self employed / small companies have been on the increase here. In alot of cases apparently because these people had no other choice.

So interested to hear from other small biz, one person ops, self employed people here.

Do YOU find it a great small country to do business in? Do you reach a point sometimes, with all the hassle is it actually worth it?

On a positive note - What could and should be done to make it a great small country to do business in?

( Im out beyond the pale :D )
In 100% agreement with you. All this talk of a recovery is total BS if you are self employed around these parts and yet you still have to fight the revenue who seem to make things up as they go along, it costs 500 in PRSI just for the privilege of calling yourself self employed and then you only get half the tax allowance of a PAYE worker (which I am still trying to check out but it is not satrd on the revenue website).

As you say, there is an awful lot of 'self employed' trying to pull in a few pennies because they have no other choice and then we are told employment is going up!
 
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The only reason why there are more small business is because the government have forced everyone on BTWEA schemes.

As for your downturn its probably because of the increased competition.

Fair dues to you though, its a business I wouldn't consider because of the lack of protection. Im delighted to be in the civil service, protection and pensions. Its all about looking after yourself.
 

robut

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The only reason why there are more small business is because the government have forced everyone on BTWEA schemes.

As for your downturn its probably because of the increased competition.

Fair dues to you though, its a business I wouldn't consider because of the lack of protection. Im delighted to be in the civil service, protection and pensions. Its all about looking after yourself.
Yeah I hear you ..

As i mentioned in my OP I have worked for myself for ever .. Never worked for anyone from when i left college. Up to about 07 it was manageable and yes I made a reasonable living .. I still wouldnt say comfortable :D

Then the bust. Even through that it got tight but for some reason last two years it has got tighter, and i am not alone in thinking this.

Having worked for myself for so long I know nothing otherwise .. never did 9 to 5. Alot of peeps who work for themselves so long can find it hard to adjust to working for the man :D
 

Mad as Fish

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The only reason why there are more small business is because the government have forced everyone on BTWEA schemes.

As for your downturn its probably because of the increased competition.

Fair dues to you though, its a business I wouldn't consider because of the lack of protection. Im delighted to be in the civil service, protection and pensions. Its all about looking after yourself.
The competition is for peoples disposable income but the insurance companies, mobile phone providers, Sky etc etc that are taking that away from the local economy.
 

robut

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My thoughts on likes of Revenue, state bodies, banks is this. It seems to be all one size fits all when it comes to treating business, no matter the size. Surely it should be scaled in nature based on a small biz will not have the manpower / separate depts or finances that a large firm will have.

One case in point is AIB and their IBB business banking. For years I have been on to them about WHY do I ( having a ltd company - just me working in it ) need to pay the €60 per quarter for the pleasure of looking up my balance now and then. Because you are a ltd company then one size fits all regardless of size was the answer.

Finally - a bit of good news - they recently launched a small biz banking product for small ltd companies & self employed. AND its free. Its a scaled down version of IBB with less features. pretty much features you would not use as a smalllll biz anyway.

This is what I am talking of, more of this recognition of scale when dealing with small biz - but I cannot see the state bodies adapting this way, though that is what needs to happen in my opinion ..
 
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dizillusioned

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robut, I understand completely and have a little experience about this. Ireland has some of the most unhelpful Revenue people when it comes to small businesses. You cannot pay tax up front, or pay in advance. I know a few people who are trying to settle tax issues all above board. They insist on joining online, then they want you to have an accountant. that makes no sense if you are able to keep the books yourself (we are talking a simple operation).

I know two people who have been told get an accountant. Instead Revenue should have people explain how the system works. (now I know getting an accountant involved is safer.. but still)

When it comes to dealing with banks (and I have had my fair share) usually those you speak to have no business experience and can only judge based on past figures, which is fine, except future business opportunities are rarely have historical agreed figures to back them up.

Insurance is a killer for many people. Phones are pretty ok, cheaper in Ireland than many countries I know of. Vehicle insurance is a killer if it is for business usage, and then there is the BIK for using that vehicle for personal use. It all adds to the time that people spend away from their business and doing paperwork (which is a necessary evil unfortunately).

I would never be a one man sole trader in Ireland, it is too risky and the failure of any enterprise means nothing to fall back on. This has to change so that people at least the same protection as their employees.

A company offers some personal protection but you still have to put everything on the line in personal guarantees for any bank that you are using.

Personally, the whole system stifles entrepreneurship, in my opinion.
 

robut

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Yip dizillusioned, thanks .. couldnt have said it better myself .. +1

And "Personally, the whole system stifles entrepreneurship, in my opinion." .. not just in your opinion, add me. Alot of time I feel stifled .. thats why like now I question what i am doing this for ..
 
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Uber and other such companies demand that their wage slaves incorporate.
 

robut

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You mentioned REVENUE dizillusioned

Recently and not for the first time I have heard that ROS and the software behind it ( Java ) has been around too long, that it is basically being patched as they go along AND is not user friendly for that reason PLUS can be prone to strange behaviours.

Many it seems login to pay a tax bill like VAT not realising that the RETURN and the PAYMENT are in two different areas of ROS. They PAY the bill thinking that handles the return also, but unfortunately that is not the case, unknowingly leaving outstanding returns though paid.

The way it should be is you go to the pay section and as you go through that you get prompted to go to the return section OR you have the return as part of the payment section also.
 
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The Old Woman

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I fall into the sector you speak off. I have been sickened with what I have witnessed in the last 5 yrs.
 

Sister Mercedes

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I fall into the sector you speak off. I have been sickened with what I have witnessed in the last 5 yrs.
Same here. On days that I have work, I come home from work to hear of another lottery size insurance compensation award, or another branch of the PS whinging about an allowance for working an extra hour a week. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe where things that should be valued have no value, and things with little value attract all the money. I can't see a long term future for a country that has its priorities that f*cked up.
 

Mad as Fish

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Same here. On days that I have work, I come home from work to hear of another lottery size insurance compensation award, or another branch of the PS whinging about an allowance for working an extra hour a week. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe where things that should be valued have no value, and things with little value attract all the money. I can't see a long term future for a country that has its priorities that f*cked up.
I'm going to change my name to Mr Apple.
 


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