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Why being a grown-up doesn't mean you have to grow up...


seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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14,327
The IT graduation section has a nicely written editorial I thought I'd share.

Leaving college: does that mean I have to grow up? - Life & Style | Trends, Tips, News & Advice | The Irish Times - Sat, May 25, 2013

They say college provides the best years of your life, and what every student fears most is that it’s true. The world warns us to enjoy ourselves while we can, because it’s all downhill from here. Jobhunting, terrible accommodation and beans on toast will be the highlights of your existence once you have your degree.
Sums it up for me - thats why I stayed in college so long.

The good news is that you don’t ever have to become an adult. Because what we grow up believing adults to be is just a fantasy, a fairy tale. We believe throughout our childhood and adolescence the myths that adults are confident, are in control, know what they are doing, pay all their bills on time and enjoy eating vegetables.
These people don’t exist. Adults are just you and your friends but more tired. The guy who drank so much he fell through your coffee table will be a solicitor with a wife and 2.5 children one day. He’ll still be the same idiot you knew. He’ll just get better at hiding it.
I'd love if someone set this to music, like the Baz Luhrmann sunscreen song.

Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen - YouTube

http://redd.it/1f4pqu
 
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Yogosan

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When I was young I used to play soccer nearly every single day. Then I got a little older and realized I couldn't play as often. I came out of the leaving cert in bewilderment of what the last six years was all about as it seemed an entire waste of time. I used to be great at maths but by the time I finished the junior cert it seemed like a load of nonsense and basically gave up on it.

Now I'm 21. There doesn't seem to be a job in Ireland as physically demanding as a game of soccer which is what I would prefer. The majority of my education apart from reading, writing and BOMDAS! is of little to no use for me (French, Irish, RELIGION). I now understand how complex mathematics is used in everyday life (10 years too late if you ask me) and regret throwing away that potential.

I wouldn't mind a job in IT but apart from catering to multinationals needs, Ireland shows little innovation in the sector and there are probably 12 year old kids in other countries with more IT skills than me in terms of coding and software development.

I know growing up in Ireland is like paradise compared to some other places in the world but I can't help but think or education systems success is exaggerated. In my opinion it's holding our country back.
 

Dan_Murphy

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Now I'm 21. There doesn't seem to be a job in Ireland as physically demanding as a game of soccer which is what I would prefer. The majority of my education apart from reading, writing and BOMDAS! is of little to no use for me (French, Irish, RELIGION). I now understand how complex mathematics is used in everyday life (10 years too late if you ask me) and regret throwing away that potential.
I'm the opposite, I did Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Applied maths for my leaving cert and regret my neglect of languages.

While you are right that learning Irish was a waste of time, I wish I wasn't so utterly arrogant as to assume that once I did my leaving cert I would never look at a language book again. I'm now work with Spanish and Germans in other offices almost every day and wish I could easily learn new languages.

Don't regret the past, just work on correcting the flaw for the future. Work on improving your IT skills if thats what you want to do. :)
 

seabhcan

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When I was young I used to play soccer nearly every single day. Then I got a little older and realized I couldn't play as often. I came out of the leaving cert in bewilderment of what the last six years was all about as it seemed an entire waste of time. I used to be great at maths but by the time I finished the junior cert it seemed like a load of nonsense and basically gave up on it.

Now I'm 21. There doesn't seem to be a job in Ireland as physically demanding as a game of soccer which is what I would prefer. The majority of my education apart from reading, writing and BOMDAS! is of little to no use for me (French, Irish, RELIGION). I now understand how complex mathematics is used in everyday life (10 years too late if you ask me) and regret throwing away that potential.

I wouldn't mind a job in IT but apart from catering to multinationals needs, Ireland shows little innovation in the sector and there are probably 12 year old kids in other countries with more IT skills than me in terms of coding and software development.

I know growing up in Ireland is like paradise compared to some other places in the world but I can't help but think or education systems success is exaggerated. In my opinion it's holding our country back.
The Irish system certainly has problems. But I've lived in the UK, Russia, and have seen the education system at work in a few other countries too (France and Italy spring to mind). They all have pluses and minuses, but I couldn't say they are better or worse than Ireland. One common feature of many countries is the existence of elite secondary schools, which select based on ability (maths particularly) not family wealth. I don't think such things exist here - and perhaps they should.
 

Yogosan

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I'm the opposite, I did Math, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Applied maths for my leaving cert and regret my neglect of languages.

While you are right that learning Irish was a waste of time, I wish I wasn't so utterly arrogant as to assume that once I did my leaving cert I would never look at a language book again. I'm now work with Spanish and Germans in other offices almost every day and wish I could easily learn new languages.

Don't regret the past, just work on correcting the flaw for the future. Work on improving your IT skills if that's what you want to do. :)
It seemed to me like it wasn't even a matter of neglecting the language subjects. I got a C+ in higher level French. I would have given myself an F grade in foundation level. I simply cannot speak the language so what justifies such a good grade? My grade along with many other non french speakers like myself are obscuring the notion that teaching French is working because it is not. Same with Irish.

I got a D- in English for the Pre exams, a friend in my class got an A+. 3 months of falling asleep in class later and doing no homework, I get a C+ in higher level English and the same friend got a D-. The whole system seems like a complete farce for that alone.

Preparation for the real world in public schools is abysmal. Worst of all, there are some great teachers who are constrained teaching within this terrible framework. It's no wonder people grasp onto college with their life before being sent into the trenches!
 

Yogosan

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Feb 22, 2013
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The Irish system certainly has problems. But I've lived in the UK, Russia, and have seen the education system at work in a few other countries too (France and Italy spring to mind). They all have pluses and minuses, but I couldn't say they are better or worse than Ireland. One common feature of many countries is the existence of elite secondary schools, which select based on ability (maths particularly) not family wealth. I don't think such things exist here - and perhaps they should.
In theory a few basic changes should sort out a lot of problems, but they are so glaringly obvious that their must be a problem with the changes. For example having 4-5 different math teachers throughout my secondary education can't have helped much. It should be kept to an absolute minimum. This goes goes for all subjects. Just when I get used to a teachers style of teaching, it all changes around. I had a maths teacher who would explain one equation very slowly and in detail, next year I had a teacher who would do 10 sums on the board, barely explaining the equation at all.

(This might be a little off topic but I do consider education to be a determining factor in what the OP is about)
 

seabhcan

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In theory a few basic changes should sort out a lot of problems, but they are so glaringly obvious that their must be a problem with the changes. For example having 4-5 different math teachers throughout my secondary education can't have helped much. It should be kept to an absolute minimum. This goes goes for all subjects. Just when I get used to a teachers style of teaching, it all changes around. I had a maths teacher who would explain one equation very slowly and in detail, next year I had a teacher who would do 10 sums on the board, barely explaining the equation at all.

(This might be a little off topic but I do consider education to be a determining factor in what the OP is about)
Maths is very often taught badly (everywhere, not just Ireland). Its one of those subjects where if you've been doing it for years, you forget what its like not to know it. I've found that the best maths teachers are those who aren't particularly good at maths.

The 50 min class/module structure isn't the best for this. Longer workgroup/project style learning is far better. 40 min into a class, when the students are nearly getting it, you have to wrap up.
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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The IT graduation section has a nicely written editorial I thought I'd share.

Leaving college: does that mean I have to grow up? - Life & Style | Trends, Tips, News & Advice | The Irish Times - Sat, May 25, 2013

Sums it up for me - thats why I stayed in college so long.

I'd love if someone set this to music, like the Baz Luhrmann sunscreen song.

Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen - YouTube
THES!TERIMES telling people that they don't have to become grownups, that they can be childish forever.

Consistent with the rest of the patronizing drivel they have produced down through the years.
 

seabhcan

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THES!TERIMES telling people that they don't have to become grownups, that they can be childish forever.

Consistent with the rest of the patronizing drivel they have produced down through the years.
I think its more pointing out that most people are childish for ever and just pretend to grow up. In my experience, those few adults who are not childish, never really were. I've met 8 year old who are more adult than some 40 year olds I know.
 

Yogosan

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When I get together with my friends, we are pretty much as childish as it gets. When strangers are around I am a bit more restrained, in case they get offended by a very insensitive joke. Usually after a few months I find new acquaintances to be as childish as myself.
 

gatsbygirl20

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THES!TERIMES telling people that they don't have to become grownups, that they can be childish forever.

Consistent with the rest of the patronizing drivel they have produced down through the years.
They might be tapping into a crisis developing around issues to do with entering adulthood, diminished expectations for young people, the crises in masculinity, inability to find decently-paid work which is the foundation-stone of adulthood, founding a family, etc,

During the long hey-day of the Tiger, children had their every whim more or less catered for, they were praised, told to aim high and follow their dreams, they lived in a fairytale world of bouncy castles, beautifully decorated individual bedrooms full of dream gadgetry, play-dates, sunshine holidays abroad, school trips to London, Paris, Rome..

Now they hit the cold, recessionary "real world" of their early twenties with the realisation that the best is perhaps behind them, the fun, the good times are over....In the unlikely event of their getting one of the scarce low paid jobs on offer, they will be leaving the luxurious Tiger home of their parents to eat the same beans on toast in some grotty room as their parents generation...

Except their parents generation at that age was well used to grotty rooms, having been raised in rather grim, authoritarian homes with few indulgences--homes they couldn't wait to leave ....

But for many of today's young people "adulthood" is a headlong plunge into a harsh world of bare survival, after the dream world of their childhood

Many are ill-equipped to face it. Nothing in their indulged and protected childhood prepared them for the terrible compromises, dead-ends and cruel disappointments of the brutal, post-crash economy

Boys, in particular, have no map, no compass, no direction to find their way forward into "manhood", or what was understood by manhood in the past......Even in their late twenties many of them have no dependable career or prospect of buying a house or putting down roots or taking responsibility for a family...the things which were the hallmarks of "manhood" for their fathers...

So they drift in a world which they cannot seem to get a grip on....they are beset by a sense of dread and a sense of meaninglessness...

The high suicide rate among them tells its own terrible tale...

The survivors try to make the best of their extended adolescence......because in many cases, they have no other choice
 

Deep Blue

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Jul 4, 2012
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They might be tapping into a crisis developing around issues to do with entering adulthood, diminished expectations for young people, the crises in masculinity, inability to find decently-paid work which is the foundation-stone of adulthood, founding a family, etc,

During the long hey-day of the Tiger, children had their every whim more or less catered for, they were praised, told to aim high and follow their dreams, they lived in a fairytale world of bouncy castles, beautifully decorated individual bedrooms full of dream gadgetry, play-dates, sunshine holidays abroad, school trips to London, Paris, Rome..

Now they hit the cold, recessionary "real world" of their early twenties with the realisation that the best is perhaps behind them, the fun, the good times are over....In the unlikely event of their getting one of the scarce low paid jobs on offer, they will be leaving the luxurious Tiger home of their parents to eat the same beans on toast in some grotty room as their parents generation...

Except their parents generation at that age was well used to grotty rooms, having been raised in rather grim, authoritarian homes with few indulgences--homes they couldn't wait to leave ....

But for many of today's young people "adulthood" is a headlong plunge into a harsh world of bare survival, after the dream world of their childhood

Many are ill-equipped to face it. Nothing in their indulged and protected childhood prepared them for the terrible compromises, dead-ends and cruel disappointments of the brutal, post-crash economy

Boys, in particular, have no map, no compass, no direction to find their way forward into "manhood", or what was understood by manhood in the past......Even in their late twenties many of them have no dependable career or prospect of buying a house or putting down roots or taking responsibility for a family...the things which were the hallmarks of "manhood" for their fathers...

So they drift in a world which they cannot seem to get a grip on....they are beset by a sense of dread and a sense of meaninglessness...

The high suicide rate among them tells its own terrible tale...

The survivors try to make the best of their extended adolescence......because in many cases, they have no other choice
....the Post-LC Sunshine Holiday abroad, before e'er a result came in; diving naked into the Hotel pool from the 4th floor balcony at 3am. Off in a camper van (rented by the Bank of Mom & Dad) to Glastonbury with the lads. Graduation 'Balls' where they all looked like a bunch of kids who'd been at the dressing-up box, with ill-fitting tuxedos and chicken-fillet cleavages....
 

Dan_Murphy

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Boys, in particular, have no map, no compass, no direction to find their way forward into "manhood", or what was understood by manhood in the past......Even in their late twenties many of them have no dependable career or prospect of buying a house or putting down roots or taking responsibility for a family...the things which were the hallmarks of "manhood" for their fathers...
This is very true. At my age not only had my parents married but they already had a mortgage. I couldn't imagine being in a position to do that myself, since its looking increasingly likely I won't be employed this time next year, nevermind have a job to last the lifetime of a mortgage.

At times, I look at what my dad managed at my age and what little I have comparatively accomplished and feel nothing but shame.



GG, this is wildly off topic but have you ever considered writing a book?
 

dizillusioned

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Listen people need to be childish, it is good for the soul and mental pressure.

I work in a job where I have to be professional, lots of responsibility and many many pressures. When that stops I like to enjoy a laugh and stop being the "adult" that I have to be in work.

With my son I could play and mess around. Silly pranks, jokes and basically acting like a 12 year old. Always mindful that I am dad, did not stop me acting stupid. I have cousins who do exactly the same thing.

Adults grow up, become "adult-like" but it is my opinion beneath it all is a kid in adult clothing. Most adults IMO become what they are expected to be. Eg. An Accountant may become boring, a teacher may become bossy, a solicitor my become a major pain in the ass (I joke) but when not in the situation of work and responsibility they revert to themselves...ie. not being the person that they should be.

Personally, now that little diz has left to start his own life, I am doing things that I haven't done in years and am absolutely LOVING it. Yes I can be childish (in relation to humour and outlook at times) but I would prefer to look at things that way than be serious and adult all the time..
 
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daveL

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Oct 29, 2010
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The IT graduation section has a nicely written editorial I thought I'd share.

Leaving college: does that mean I have to grow up? - Life & Style | Trends, Tips, News & Advice | The Irish Times - Sat, May 25, 2013



Sums it up for me - thats why I stayed in college so long.



I'd love if someone set this to music, like the Baz Luhrmann sunscreen song.

Baz Luhrmann - Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen - YouTube

Leaving college: does that mean I have to grow up? : education
what a load of soft sh!te...
 

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