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Why can't we be more like Germany?


YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The New Statesman asks why Britain is losing out to the Germans in so much more than just football. Keeping Up With the Germans, argues that the cultural cross-pollination between Britain and Germany runs deeper than one would expect. But it also needs a good crises before people are willing to change their ways and challenge German supremacy.
 


hiding behind a poster

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The New Statesman asks why Britain is losing out to the Germans in so much more than just football. Keeping Up With the Germans, argues that the cultural cross-pollination between Britain and Germany runs deeper than one would expect. But it also needs a good crises before people are willing to change their ways and challenge German supremacy.
What do you mean by "German supremacy"?
 

Analyzer

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This is often a theme in the British media - why can't we beat the German/Yanks/Japanese etc...

Probably because Britain puts the likes of Phoney Tony, Flash Gordon, Heir to Blair, etc.. in charge of running the country.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Maybe that the are our Masters, The Masters of the EU?
Are these the same Masters of the EU that keep drawing lines in the sand on various aspects of the financial crisis, only to subsequently see them washed away?
 

Ulster-Lad

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Are these the same Masters of the EU that keep drawing lines in the sand on various aspects of the financial crisis, only to subsequently see them washed away?

petunia thats funny
 

LamportsEdge

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The 'Anglo-Saxon' is a German pollination. Both Angles and Saxons are from areas of what we now know as Germany.

On top of that wave of immigration we had the later Norman invasion, the Normans themselves being a pollination of Norse and Gaul tribes.

Depends what you mean by 'success'. Norman culture is obsessive about property, the gaining of it, the holding of it and the sale of it.

In Ireland we are essentially running after and copying what we see around us as 'culture' when in fact we are just aping the Norman culture which is reflected in 'property' based law.

In Norman culture you are an insider if you are a property owner (and that doesn't mean 'mortgage payer', it means the free holder of the land or property) and an outsider if you aren't a property owner.

Mostly for reasons of post colonial cultural confusion and a rudderless lack of knowledge of our own original social structure which was interrupted from the 7th to 10th centuries and replaced by an overlay of Norman law we tend to ask ourselves stupid questions such as 'should we be closer to Boston than Berlin' and other lost idiocies.

A culture lost and left wailing for a mammy of any obvious kind down the hallways of the wrong shopping centre.
 

drummed

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Maybe that they are our Masters, The Masters of the EU?
Nobody is your master without your permission. You seem to have given that permission a long time ago.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Nobody is your master without your permission. You seem to have given that permission a long time ago.
No Ireland did. We ceded our sovereignty long ago.
 

LamportsEdge

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A little bit harsh, perhaps?
Not at all. I'm paraphrasing senior Irish politicians when I mention the 'closer to Boston than Berlin' comment. It is indicative of the cultural abyss we are in that it should be automatic in the minds of politicians that we have to be more like one or the other. It wouldn't enter their heads to be singularly Irish or to ask themselves what would Irish national life be if our original culture had been allowed to develop through the centuries without the overlay of Norman law and society.

The fact that on the one hand we are the possessors of a legal system acknowledged as one of Europe's oldest and at the same time appear to be digging around to see who we should be 'more like' is plentiful evidence of a cultural confusion. As far as I know not one Irish academic or politician has ever written a book examining what might have been the product of those lost centuries of development of our original legal and political systems.

You'll find plenty of books urging us one way or another- Europe or America, Austrian School or whatever. We have universities enough, history enough, evidence enough to build our own way and update our original culture but no- we must be more Boston than Berlin or Berlin than Boston, apparently.

Blown with the prevailing winds from elsewhere. Always. This is a cultural uncertainty than has to be overcome if we are ever to be anything more than the servants or colonials of others. There is no escaping that. Much of the activity here is a paen by some gobshyte or other in favour of selling us more Normandy or Europa. Very few that I've seen have nothing to sell to us but a building upon our own relatively sophisticated past history. And that is very revealing.
 

fergus34

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Meh, Germans history is Ghete idea, but in any Gegel tries to change something, wier und uinterest.
but democracy was a greek invention honestly german nation one of readers and great book keepers. What else.
 

drummed

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Meh, Germans history is Ghete idea, but in any Gegel tries to change something, wier und uinterest.
but democracy was a greek invention honestly german nation one of readers and great book keepers. What else.

Perceptive.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Meh, Germans history is Ghete idea, but in any Gegel tries to change something, wier und uinterest.
but democracy was a greek invention honestly german nation one of readers and great book keepers. What else.
don't forget Fritz and Gunther and Heinz
 

LamportsEdge

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Ireland still beats German GDP per capita hands down and logically therefore British too.
'GDP' measures are about as honest as the European Union ledgers. Even if these measures weren't manipulated for political reasons in the US, Europe and inside most of the nations who use it, what does it actually mean?

If you take 'GDP' as a measure of success to its ultimate limits it suggests that those who don't add to the 'GDP' should be eliminated in order to achieve national 'success'. It is a nonsense of a social measurement as many economic measuring devices tend to be. It is culturally without any merit at all unless you compare GDP across nations and take into account tax and reward differences.

It is like averaging percentages. Culturally meaningless. A pile of arse for political clerks to argue over like jackdaws on a lifeless rabbit.
 

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