Why did FG/FF/GARDA cover up the murder of FG menber Seamus Ludlow?

HEAVENHELPUS

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Why would FG/FF/Garda cover up the murder of FG member Seamus Ludlow?
Surely an inquiry needs to be set up to find the reason for this criminal act!
 


zakalwe1

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?

have you more info?
 

Just Us

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?

have you more info?
As a FG head, I thought you would have loads? Anyways:

The Seamus Ludlow Truth and Justice Campaign.

"Seamus Ludlow was a well known member or supporter of the Fine Gael party that was at that time the major party in the coalition government in Dublin.

It is believed that Seamus Ludlow had unwittingly accepted a lift offered by his killers, who did not know him. He may have been murdered simply because he was a Catholic, or because he was mistaken for or instead of another intended victim.

This latter theory is now widely accepted. Indeed, the name of the actual intended victim, (now deceased) a native of County Down, then living in Dundalk, is now widely known. It appears that the UDR and Red Hand Commando killers were unable to find their man in Dundalk and were on their way home when they fell upon the unfortunate Seamus Ludlow.

Whatever the reason for his foul murder, Seamus Ludlow's killers stayed free to kill again (and they did kill again!), even though they were known to the Gardai and the RUC (as early as 1977 if not before then), while the victim's good name was smeared with disgusting false allegations that he was murdered by the IRA because he was an informer.

The Gardai went further by attempting to implicate members of the Ludlow family in this foul murder - even though they knew all along who the real killers were since a file naming the suspects was received from the RUC in 1979!."

+ lots of others. Ask if you need more.
 

HEAVENHELPUS

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As a FG head, I thought you would have loads? Anyways:

The Seamus Ludlow Truth and Justice Campaign.

"Seamus Ludlow was a well known member or supporter of the Fine Gael party that was at that time the major party in the coalition government in Dublin.

It is believed that Seamus Ludlow had unwittingly accepted a lift offered by his killers, who did not know him. He may have been murdered simply because he was a Catholic, or because he was mistaken for or instead of another intended victim.

This latter theory is now widely accepted. Indeed, the name of the actual intended victim, (now deceased) a native of County Down, then living in Dundalk, is now widely known. It appears that the UDR and Red Hand Commando killers were unable to find their man in Dundalk and were on their way home when they fell upon the unfortunate Seamus Ludlow.

Whatever the reason for his foul murder, Seamus Ludlow's killers stayed free to kill again (and they did kill again!), even though they were known to the Gardai and the RUC (as early as 1977 if not before then), while the victim's good name was smeared with disgusting false allegations that he was murdered by the IRA because he was an informer.

The Gardai went further by attempting to implicate members of the Ludlow family in this foul murder - even though they knew all along who the real killers were since a file naming the suspects was received from the RUC in 1979!."


+ lots of others. Ask if you need more.
A very interesting post.
 

loner

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This foul murder of an innocent man ,apparently hitching a lift home,is in its own way similar to the Mountbatten murder and must be roundly condemned---nobody has been brought to book for itdespite extensive enquiries and a thorough examination ofthe events surrounding it by Judge Barron----no political cause justifies this kind of activity .
 

myk

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Alleging a FG cover up without providing any evidence. The second smear thread like this you have started in as many weeks!
 

Pat Mc Larnon

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As the family have stated the names and status of the killers were known to the RUC and Gardai for decades.

It seems clear that at a certain level within the Gardai and their political controllers a very political and criminal decision was taken to deliberately mislead the family. In fact as the family have stated there seems to have been a deliberate tactic by the Gardai to divide the family and turn it in on itself.

As the family sought justice and those responsible to be held to account it was felt best that the killers be protected and the family lied to. Lied to with the extent that justice was denied.
This whole state of affairs could not have taken place without considerable political cover.
 

Panopticon

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Why would FG/FF/Garda cover up the murder of FG member Seamus Ludlow?
Surely an inquiry needs to be set up to find the reason for this criminal act!
You see, the difference between this and the crimes of your party is that
1. the evidence about whether it happened or not isn't generally accepted by all legitimate actors and
2. the terrorists themselves aren't now in charge of the party.
 
D

Duth Ealla

Alleging a FG cover up without providing any evidence. The second smear thread like this you have started in as many weeks!
I dont believe for a second that there was a Fine Gael cover up.

I do think though that the tendency of some, its only some, Fine gaelers to focus solely on Republicanism as a threat means that people like Seamus Ludlow, a Fine Gael supporter, are ignored irrelevancies.

Was there a cover up directed by FG. No i seriously doubt that.

But the murder of people like Ludlow were too easily ignored or judged not important by some Fine Gaelers who became fixated on the IRA to the extent that they ignored all other wrong doings.

Brendan Mcgahon was the Fine Gael TD at the time for the area.

He knew the Ludlows.

Seamus Ludlow even did gardening work for him.

yet when the man who gardened for Brendan McGahon, Fine gael TD, was murdered Brendan thought it not rational that Loyalists could do it. Ignoring the fact that the loyalists were murdering people and bombing the south already.

Some Fine Gaelers are so fixated with republicans being a threat they ignore all other things.

Brenda Mcgahon would appear to be one Fine gael ex TD who left his own bias colour his perception of the murder of a man who did gardening for him.

Even the republican hating journalist Ed Moloney was able to impartially look at the murder.

Why were people like McGahon left prosper in the party. irish citizens were being murdered by loyalists, and their allies, and yet that was only an opportunity for people like him to continue to oppose republicans.

Fanaticism is a curse and its something that affects all parties. Et in arcadia ego - even Fine gael had its share.

Can any Fine Gael here square up and say that yeah McGahon was wrong. You can still oppose Republicans but why not oppose British/loyalist attacks as well.
 
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HEAVENHELPUS

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You see, the difference between this and the crimes of your party is that
1. the evidence about whether it happened or not isn't generally accepted by all legitimate actors and
2. the terrorists themselves aren't now in charge of the party.
Not a very good attempt at deflecting the issue. Very strange how this criminal act by FF/FG/GARDA gets no coverage from you lot! :rolleyes:
 

Just Us

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This foul murder of an innocent man ,apparently hitching a lift home,is in its own way similar to the Mountbatten murder and must be roundly condemned---nobody has been brought to book for itdespite extensive enquiries
Ha Fukn Ha! The only inquiry was deliberately lying to the Ludlow family about how the bad, bad IRA killed Séamus, when they knew very well that 3 British soldiers and Mambo Carroll, a long term British Agent, who went on to kill more innocent Irish civilans, murdered him. Lying scum.
 

loner

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As the family have stated the names and status of the killers were known to the RUC and Gardai for decades.

It seems clear that at a certain level within the Gardai and their political controllers a very political and criminal decision was taken to deliberately mislead the family. In fact as the family have stated there seems to have been a deliberate tactic by the Gardai to divide the family and turn it in on itself.

As the family sought justice and those responsible to be held to account it was felt best that the killers be protected and the family lied to. Lied to with the extent that justice was denied.
This whole state of affairs could not have taken place without considerable political cover.
With respect to you Pat you are talking a load of b""""""t. Knowing the names of who did something is not the same as having evidence to deal with them.
 

HEAVENHELPUS

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With respect to you Pat you are talking a load of b""""""t. Knowing the names of who did something is not the same as having evidence to deal with them.
So it was ok to smear Seamus Ludlows good name to his family then!!? :rolleyes:
None so blind as those who don't want to see!
 
D

Duth Ealla

With respect to you Pat you are talking a load of b""""""t. Knowing the names of who did something is not the same as having evidence to deal with them.
Yes Loner, would it be good enough to question them though?

But even if thats the case why the lies to the Ludlow family about who was responsible. Why 20 years of lies.

Is that another annoying, inconvenient fact? Should we pretend that was necessary as well?

Or maybe lie, twisted upon lie, we go along with the story that they believed what they told the Ludlows.

At what point does the thinking mind kick in and go enough lies.
 

Nem

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It would probably be helpful if there was some documentation presented rather then a link to a politically motivated campaign (that probably be better moved to the Justice section).

Are there any details from police reports or papers held in the National Archives that can corroborate any of the issues raised? I'd very interested to see any further details. Thanks.
 

Pat Mc Larnon

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With respect to you Pat you are talking a load of b""""""t. Knowing the names of who did something is not the same as having evidence to deal with them.

The people most central to this are the Ludlow family. It is they who believe that no proper investigation into the murder was conducted. It is they who were lied to by the Gardai. Why did the Gardai attempt to turn the family in on itself by quite cynically naming another member of the family as the culprit when they were sitting on the names of the people responsible?
Even with changes of government and Garda personnel the lie was allowed to continue. Unfortunately for the family that cannot be dismissed as b******t.
 
D

Duth Ealla

It would probably be helpful if there was some documentation presented rather then a link to a politically motivated campaign (that probably be better moved to the Justice section).

Are there any details from police reports or papers held in the National Archives that can corroborate any of the issues raised? I'd very interested to see any further details. Thanks.
Look it up its all there.

Look up Ed Moloney. He is politically motivated as well being fervently anti-republican.

Why not read some of his pieces on this?

No point in putting it in the justice section. Gardai closed the case in May.
 

turdsl

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With respect to you Pat you are talking a load of b""""""t. Knowing the names of who did something is not the same as having evidence to deal with them.
The murder was never solved, McGahondid no sevice to his country over this,the allegation
that Ludlow was an informer and connected to the IRA went nation wide too quick nationwide too quick without evidence. Perhaps local F.G TDs could say that they would encourage a new investigation when the get power, there is now a new cold case unit within the Garda
 

Just Us

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Messages
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It would probably be helpful if there was some documentation presented rather then a link to a politically motivated campaign (that probably be better moved to the Justice section).

Are there any details from police reports or papers held in the National Archives that can corroborate any of the issues raised? I'd very interested to see any further details. Thanks.
Ha Fuqn Ha arís. The cops & FG rabid anti-republican FG TD McGahon were those doing the despicable lying.

If u really want info:
Sub-Committee on the Barron Report on the Murder of Seamus Ludlow - Tithe an Oireachtais

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/committees29thdail/jcjedwr/Final-Ludlow-Report.pdf

"6) Everyone who described Seamus did so in warm terms. His sister Ms. Nan Sharkey stated:
“Seamus lived with me, or I lived with him. He was a very good fellow. He
was a very good living chap. He never got into any trouble and he was
good to his parents. Anywhere he went, he would tell me who got a lift
from or who he got home with. He never gave any trouble to anyone…He
was very kind to my children. He was a good living man too so there is no
one to say anything about him.”
Ms. Briege Doyle, a niece of Seamus, who was 16 years old at the time of his death, movingly described her affection for her uncle:
“We loved him. I loved all my uncles but because we were reared with
him he was like another father to us. Although there were ten of us he
never scolded us. He was a lovely person. I was only 16 and could not
understand who would shoot my uncle.”

7) In its written submission to the Sub-Committee, British Irish Rights Watch, made the important observation that:
“No-one in authority has ever given the family of Seamus Ludlow the
credit that they are due for having themselves pursued the failure of the
police investigation. Had they not done so, there would have been no
Barron Report and no hearings by the Sub-Committee.”
The Sub-Committee hopes that the following remarks will go some way towards remedying this omission. The fact that we are writing about what happened to Seamus in this report is due to the exhaustive efforts made by his family to ensure that his case has not simply been forgotten. After listening to their submissions, it is clear to the Sub-Committee that the family are still deeply affected by the desperate shock and trauma of the brutal death of Seamus and the continuing pain caused by the subsequent failure on the part of the authorities to bring his killers to justice. The Sub-Committee recognises and wishes to put it formally on record
that the Ludlow-Sharkey family have remained steadfast and courageous in their pursuit of justice for Seamus over the past 30 years.

8) Mr. Kevin Ludlow, a brother of Seamus, told the Sub-Committee of his upset at the way in which the Gardaí handled the investigation into Seamus’s death:

“We lost a brother and it is a shame to think of how the Gardai treated the
family. We were treated very badly for 20 years, until we started this
process ten years ago. We got nothing but lies from the Gardai, who
blamed the IRA or members of the family for what happened. How they
carried on was absolutely wrong. When I saw the body in the ditch and
identified it, I just could not believe it. To think that our brother was
murdered and we were told lies day after day. Every time we talked to the
Gardai we got lies, lies, lies.”
Kevin described how he had identified the body of Seamus at the scene where he was found.

9) Ms. Nan Sharkey, a sister of Seamus, explained how the family could not bring themselves to tell their mother what had happened to Seamus:
“We had to tell her he was in a car accident. We could not tell her the
way he was shot. She died not knowing. She never knew about it. You
could not tell her; she was confined to bed. She was heartbroken.”

10) Ms. Eileen Fox, a sister of Seamus Ludlow, was critical of the way in which the
Gardaí handled the investigation and the suggestion by them that he had been killed by the IRA:
“We were subjected to an awful lot of harassment from Gardaí who were
in and out every day. For weeks they were with me in the house every day. They were saying it was the IRA and this and that.”

11) Mr. Michael Donegan, a nephew of Seamus, explained that his father, Kevin Donegan (who had been in the Irish Defence Forces for 14 years and who was of the view that if he heard it from the Gardai it must be true), had believed the suggestion by the Gardaí that the killing of his brother was arranged by the IRA and carried out by members of the Ludlow-Sharkey family because Seamus was an IRA informer. He described the tension this gave rise to among the family members:
“There is no question about it; the killing traumatised the family, turned
us upside down. To a large extent it put our lives on hold for the next 30
years, which is why we are here today…He met these gardai over a
number of months and they just kept putting it home to him: the IRA, the
IRA, the IRA. He went to his grave with that belief: that it was the IRA,
because of what they told him. There is no question that it caused a lot of
conflict in my house. I am not going to try and avoid it now.”

12) Mr. Brendan Ludlow, a nephew of Seamus, described how his parents had put two Gardaí up in their house between 1972 and 1976. He also pointed out that he had been a member of the Defence Forces operating on the border where his uncle was killed from 1977-1999. He explained:

“This is how we treated the State. The State has treated us as described
from 1976 to date; we have had nothing else but the same treatment from
the Garda Síochána”.
When Deputy Power asked him if he felt that the Garda investigation at the time had been carried out properly he said that in his opinion it had not been and added:
“I think they did not want to know about the Ludlow family. The statement
was made that it was political and that he was shot by his own”.

13) Seamus’s niece, Ms. Briege Doyle, described her affection for her uncle and how he was like a father to her. She described how she was the fourth oldest in the family and was 16 at the time of the murder. She stated that:

“I am Mrs Sharkey's daughter, I was reared in the same house as Seamus.
I was only 16 when he was murdered. When you are 16, it was an awful
thing for your uncle to die and it was worse that he was shot. I remember
the special branch questioned me in a car on my own. I was taken into a
car outside auntie Eileen's house and I was asked who did I think killed
my uncle. I was only 16, I had not a clue. I did not know anything about
the troubles in the North. He was a quiet man. I was reared with him - so
was Jimmy - and he would not harm a hair on your head. It is sad to see a
young man die like that. He did not deserve what he got.”

14) Mr. Jimmy Sharkey, a nephew of Seamus, told the Sub-Committee:
“In general, the Garda Síochána's behaviour towards us over 30 years
has been nothing short of terrible. It has been a terrible experience for us
all and even harder for Kevin Ludlow, Eileen Fox and Nan Sharkey. It is
also hard for the rest of us at times. I was not surprised that the Gardai
did that or that the State acted as it did. They have done so in similar
cases, including the Monaghan and Dublin cases and, as we will see, that
of Dundalk. They simply did not care. The only way that one will ever get
answers is through an independent inquiry - it must be an inquiry.”
 
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