Why did SF support the Anglo Irish rescue ?

cricket

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Not wishing to score points off them here , but I've searched a few threads to answer a question I heard being put to a SF activist today ( not by me ) and he didn't seem to know why they supported the legislation which kept Anglo Irish alive two years ago.
 


Ramzi Nohra

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This thread deserves a bit of a better response

I am not sure, but I was told there were two votes on the issue. The first was about whether the govt should enter negotiations. Sf voted yes for this.

There was later a second vote about the deal itself, which Sf voted no to.

That's what I have been told, would be interested if someone could confirm/deny it
 

goosebump

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Not wishing to score points off them here , but I've searched a few threads to answer a question I heard being put to a SF activist today ( not by me ) and he didn't seem to know why they supported the legislation which kept Anglo Irish alive two years ago.

Because they were responsible, unlike Labour, who would have allowed our banking system to collapse.

And please don't claim that the Guarantee is the root of all our problems with Anglo.

If you think that, you don't understand the crisis.
 

cricket

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This thread deserves a bit of a better response

I am not sure, but I was told there were two votes on the issue. The first was about whether the govt should enter negotiations. Sf voted yes for this.

There was later a second vote about the deal itself, which Sf voted no to.

That's what I have been told, would be interested if someone could confirm/deny it
When pushed on it , the SF activist said he thought that the entire banking system would have come down if the vote hadn't gone through but he wasn't sure. It's almost impossible to wade through all the threads here and elsewhere to get the real story.
 

Miserable eFFer

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Not wishing to score points off them here , but I've searched a few threads to answer a question I heard being put to a SF activist today ( not by me ) and he didn't seem to know why they supported the legislation which kept Anglo Irish alive two years ago.
Did they. Not to my knowledge. They have repeatedly called the government bluff and bluster over the years. Sinn Fein are decent people only seeking to serve what is best for our country. They may have been driven to follow particular policies to highlight naked injustices in our society but are an easy target. They genuinely speak the truth - something that is so sorely missing from the current incumbants in power.
 

ocoonassa

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why they supported the legislation which kept Anglo Irish alive two years ago.
It's because they are corporatist shills on the same side as the banksters. Look at the neocon policies they enforce in the northeast. Remember when they used to wear donkey jackets instead of Armani suits? They don't do that anymore, they even look like sell outs.
 

stonethrower

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Simple really, would have done terrible damage to the fundraising efforts and you can't rob the banks if they don't exist.

Seriously, I think it showed up their lack of expertise and capacity in the Dail, they were panicked into believing what the Government said (and the Govt didn't need their votes by the way) and blindly followed FG into the yes lobby. I think it showed that they would buckle easily when push comes to shove!
 

SlabMurphy

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" The Dáil has approved the terms of the bank guarantee scheme by 114 votes to 22.

The measure was opposed by Labour and by Sinn Féin, who had earlier supported the Credit Institutions Bill.

Sinn Féin's Arthur Morgan said the party chose not to offer its support to the terms and conditions of the document because the detailed scheme did not give enough protection to the taxpayer.
"

Check it out on the news report that evening - Dil approves terms of guarantee scheme - RT News

Now I'm not a member of SF, but their is no point in letting those with their Labour/Socialist 'Tortsky' Party etc push their agenda.

Legislation in the Dáil must go through a number of stages to be agreed, five to be specific. At the end of each stage the Dáil must agree that it moves to the preceding stage, and then there's a final vote, the fifth stage, on the bill.

At an early stage in the discussions around the bank guarantee scheme (Credit Institutions Bill 2008) Sinn Féin supported the legislation moving to the next stage. This was not a vote for the bank guarantee. It couldn't have been. The agreed text of the bank guarantee hadn't even been finalised. As Sinn Féin made clear at the time, the party was opening to supporting the final version if certain amendments were made. Labour on the other hand, opposed it outright.

When the final version of the legislation to give effect to the bank guarantee scheme came before the Dáil the changes Sinn Féin had requested were not in it. Accordingly, the party voted against it.
 

CptSternn

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Thats a different vote. SF did vote to bail out Anglo-Irish. They claim it was because they were told it could mean large portions of the population would lose their life savings if they didn't.

Of course, the day before Cowen made a public statement saying all deposits up to 100,000 would be insured by the government, which does again raise the issue of why they decided to vote for it.

My guess? At the time they were trying to go along with the other parties to hopefully form some alliance so they might get into the next government.

A pragmatic move, and not one I support.
 

cricket

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Is there anywhere to see the record of the actual debate and the votes cast ?
 

Tiernanator

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Not wishing to score points off them here , but I've searched a few threads to answer a question I heard being put to a SF activist today ( not by me ) and he didn't seem to know why they supported the legislation which kept Anglo Irish alive two years ago.
Dont be hypocritical of course your trying to score points. Sinn Féin made the decision to do what they thought was best at the time. On reflection maybe it wasnt the best choice but could you outline what you feel the alternatives would have been if the economy had not be supported at the time. It is not Sinn Féin but FF and the Green Party that caused this mess. You would be better calling for a left vote across the card than point scoring on another left party. Mind you when your crawling over the neo-cons in FG you wont be talking much then.
 
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The full vote is listed below (with SF & Lab voting against the Bill) and the debate with official record of the vote can be accessed here:Dáil Eireann - 17/Oct/2008 Approval of Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Scheme 2008: Motion.

Question put.

[271]The Dáil divided: Tá, 114; Níl, 22.


Ahern, Michael. Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry. Andrews, Chris.
Ardagh, Seán. Aylward, Bobby.
Bannon, James. Barrett, Seán.
Behan, Joe. Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine. Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny. Breen, Pat.
Browne, John. Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Ulick. Byrne, Catherine.
Byrne, Thomas. Carey, Joe.
Carey, Pat. Clune, Deirdre.
Collins, Niall. Conlon, Margaret.
Connaughton, Paul. Connick, Seán.
Coonan, Noel J. Coughlan, Mary.
Coveney, Simon. Crawford, Seymour.
Cregan, John. Creighton, Lucinda.
Cuffe, Ciarán. Cullen, Martin.
Curran, John. D’Arcy, Michael.
Deasy, John. Deenihan, Jimmy.
Dempsey, Noel. Devins, Jimmy.
Dooley, Timmy. Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J. English, Damien.
Enright, Olwyn. Fahey, Frank.
Feighan, Frank. Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Flanagan, Charles. Flanagan, Terence.
Fleming, Seán. Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
Gormley, John. Grealish, Noel.
Haughey, Seán. Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom. Kehoe, Paul.
Kelleher, Billy. Kelly, Peter.
Kenneally, Brendan. Kennedy, Michael.
Kenny, Enda. Kirk, Seamus.
Kitt, Michael P. Kitt, Tom.
Lenihan, Brian. Lenihan, Conor.
Lowry, Michael. McCormack, Pádraic.
McDaid, James. McEllistrim, Thomas.
McEntee, Shane. McGrath, Finian.
McGrath, Mattie. McGrath, Michael.
McGuinness, John. McHugh, Joe.
Mansergh, Martin. Mitchell, Olivia.
Moloney, John. Moynihan, Michael.
Mulcahy, Michael. Neville, Dan.
Nolan, M. J. Noonan, Michael.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán. O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie. O’Dea, Willie.
O’Donnell, Kieran. O’Dowd, Fergus.
O’Flynn, Noel. O’Hanlon, Rory.
O’Keeffe, Edward. O’Mahony, John.
O’Sullivan, Christy. Perry, John.
Power, Seán. Reilly, James.
Roche, Dick. Ryan, Eamon.
Sargent, Trevor. Scanlon, Eamon.
Shatter, Alan. Sheahan, Tom.
Sheehan, P. J. Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy. Treacy, Noel.
Varadkar, Leo. Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra. Woods, Michael.



Níl
Broughan, Thomas P. Burton, Joan.
Costello, Joe. Ferris, Martin.
Gilmore, Eamon. Gregory, Tony.
Higgins, Michael D. Lynch, Ciarán.
McManus, Liz. Morgan, Arthur.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus. O’Shea, Brian.
O’Sullivan, Jan. Penrose, Willie.
Quinn, Ruairí. Rabbitte, Pat.
Sherlock, Seán. Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet. Tuffy, Joanna.
Upton, Mary. Wall, Jack.
 

MichaelMac

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Is there anywhere to see the record of the actual debate and the votes cast ?
Two things, I did a quick search of this site and was able to find the answer to the original question relatively quickly.

Secondly, as to the debate and vote, I googled it and got it even quicker. Seems to me you aren't interested at all and you are simply trolling.
 


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