Why didn't the State nationalise the gas/oil fields off the Mayo coast?

vanla sighs

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Just to get away from the bailout for a moment. Why the hell did the State give Shell the rights to our natural resources? Wasn't that deal done by a corrupt politican, one Ray Burke? Can that deal be renegotiated or reneged on? What is the estimated potential monetary value of those resources (I have heard figures in the tens of billions)?

Would that resource not go a long way in stabilising our finances were it nationalised? If we can't nationalise it (as in really, absolutely cannot) can we then charge a steep landing fee for the gas, for each and every single cubic meter of gas and each and every drop of oil? I think I heard such an option mentioned before? Thanks.
 


eoghanacht

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Because two FF'ers signed off on the deal.

Massive brown envelopes played a part.

you got one of those 540 bil cod euro notes yesterday didn't you?
 

harryshounds

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i dont know why and cant understand why our media and opposition arent making a bigger deal of this. we've millions and billions off shore we should own and control it.
 

carruthers

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Just another piss poor deal negotiated on behalf. It stinks and should be revisited.
 

Bleu Poppy

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Just to get away from the bailout for a moment. Why the hell did the State give Shell the rights to our natural resources? Wasn't that deal done by a corrupt politican, one Ray Burke? Can that deal be renegotiated or reneged on? What is the estimated potential monetary value of those resources (I have heard figures in the tens of billions)?

Would that resource not go a long way in stabilising our finances were it nationalised? If we can't nationalise it (as in really, absolutely cannot) can we then charge a steep landing fee for the gas, for each and every single cubic meter of gas and each and every drop of oil? I think I heard such an option mentioned before? Thanks.
Per Bunreacht na h-Éireann, all mineral and other natural resources are owned by the State.

It is my understanding that, according to the deal with Shell, it is only after the gas has been exhausted that calculations will be made as to what royalties will be paid to the State.

Go figure!
 

neiphin

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you know why
 

goosebump

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Just to get away from the bailout for a moment. Why the hell did the State give Shell the rights to our natural resources?

They didn't. They gave Shell the right to look for natural resources in our territorial waters.

Had the State wanted in on the deal, they would have had to share the costs of the exploration.

Given that only 1 field in out waters has been tapped in the last 35 years, this isn't exactly the sort of high risk investment you should be undertaking with tax payers funds.

If the State wanted a realistic chance of benefiting from these unproven reserves, it would have to invest in every exploration project that is undertaken.

Otherwise, like Norway, it could wait until the extent and feasibility of the reserves have been established, and then make shrewder investments.

Unfortunately, Shell's experience has sent out a signal to the international O&E community that Ireland is a no go area for Oil and Gas, which means we'll just have to sit around thinking about what we could do with the money if only somebody would get the gas out of the sea for us.

If you think Shell got such a good deal, why aren't other O&E companies lining up for a piece of the action?
 

vanla sighs

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you know why
I can guess, as no doubt so can you. Yet you still have that disgusting banner that represents selfishness and betrayal of the Irish people and the Irish nation next to your name. You may as well have a swastika there.
 

bonkers

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who negotiated the deal?i think that answers all the questions.
 

vanla sighs

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If you think Shell got such a good deal, why aren't other O&E companies lining up for a piece of the action?
Is Ray Burke still in prison? :rolleyes: Why aren't others? Who knows, this is Ireland we're talking about, maybe they were asked to grease the wheels a bit too much? Maybe there's a deal in place specifically with Shell and only Shell....who really knows?
 

picador

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i dont know why and cant understand why our media and opposition arent making a bigger deal of this. we've millions and billions off shore we should own and control it.
Sir AJF O'Reilly owns a large stake in Providence Oil, which has the rights to a number of large blocks of ocean off the west coast. The current rip-off suits him just fine.
 

kerdasi amaq

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If the elected morons had any brains, they would have set up a state owned exploration company, hired competent people to work there, and stuck the British taxpayer with the bill.
 
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stripey cat

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They didn't. They gave Shell the right to look for natural resources in our territorial waters.

Had the State wanted in on the deal, they would have had to share the costs of the exploration.
Why? Statoil and Marathon were partners in the deal. Marathon later sold their share to Vermilion. They don't have anyone working on the exploration or production of Corrib. Ireland could easily have set up a state company and cut itself a share (say 50 per cent) in each deal.

A former Shell executive told me he was surprised that it wasn't done this way, since it's the norm in many countries.

The State could also have a set a royalty rate, either a set amount per barrel of oil equivalent, or a percentage.

You have to ask yourself why they didn't.

If you think Shell got such a good deal, why aren't other O&E companies lining up for a piece of the action?
Have the licences for the other blocks not been snapped up?
 

controller

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If you think Shell got such a good deal, why aren't other O&E companies lining up for a piece of the action?
It was a rotten deal from the beginning, and you know it. Questions need to be asked about the role of Des O'Malley and FF. I know some of the people who worked on that project from the beginning and Shell rode rough shot over everybody. Time will tell
 

H

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It is a total disgrace

Ray Burke and the Bert changed Irish law in 1987 & 1992 so that multinational oil companies own 100% of the oil and gas they find under Irish waters, pay bugger all royalties on it whats more allows them to write off 100% of their investment costs against tax, even bloody costs incurred in other countries!

Their profits (when they decide to declare what they are and decide when to pay them) are taxed at a lousy 25%, compared to an international average of 68% for oil-producing countries, they will export the oil or gas outside of Ireland and most stupidly of all sell the gas etc to Bord Gais at full market rates!

Needless to say Green/FFer Scumm Party minister Eamon Ryan continued to issue licences to multinationals on terms as bad as these whilst preventing companies that wanted to invest and explore for uranium in Ireland from being allowed to do so.

May we have an external criminal investigation please?
 

goatstoe

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They didn't. They gave Shell the right to look for natural resources in our territorial waters.

Had the State wanted in on the deal, they would have had to share the costs of the exploration.

Given that only 1 field in out waters has been tapped in the last 35 years, this isn't exactly the sort of high risk investment you should be undertaking with tax payers funds.

If the State wanted a realistic chance of benefiting from these unproven reserves, it would have to invest in every exploration project that is undertaken.

Otherwise, like Norway, it could wait until the extent and feasibility of the reserves have been established, and then make shrewder investments.

Unfortunately, Shell's experience has sent out a signal to the international O&E community that Ireland is a no go area for Oil and Gas, which means we'll just have to sit around thinking about what we could do with the money if only somebody would get the gas out of the sea for us.

If you think Shell got such a good deal, why aren't other O&E companies lining up for a piece of the action?
So you admit that the representatives - such as they were - on behalf of the Irish state, could have made shrewder investments on behalf of the state.

Given that Ray Burke was a signatory to the deal why can't it be revisited and renegotiated and why isn't this issue a mainstream concern?
 

FionnMc

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The Govt. only nationalises hugely loss making entities.
Nationalising something that could actually make a fortune for the State is an idea they couldn't possibly get their heads around.
 

Capt Blah

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The whole issue needs to be revisited in light of the perfidious behaviour of the FF government. They have screwed the whole country in order to protect the secrets at Anglo, sold off billions worth of natural resources to Shell for a pittance and even cosied up to warmongers like Bush, despite some of the biggest protests this country has ever seen.

In no way can they be viewed as representing anyone other than themselves.

Their prolonged period in government is a reflection of the paucity of opposition, and the clannish voting traditions in this country, rather than an indicator of their competence.

It really is time to seriously consider the possibility that they have been paid-off by Shell and Anglo's inner-circle, amongst others. I don't know if this is the case but our media should be asking such questions. Such blatant disregard for the public interest must surely have some sort of motivating force behind it - we need to begin asking what that might be.
 

Vote_No_on_Everything

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Something to do with past, present & future brown envelopes ?
 


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