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Why does gender as a construct remain?

Concerned Irishman

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Disclaimer: Please familiarize yourself with the difference between sex and gender - sex is a biological description, gender is a behavioral and social construct more bound up in identity. Now that that's over with, let's begin:

With all the great work being done in the realm of advancing the cause of Gender Equality over the last few years, it still behooves progressives to critically analyse their own emphasis in these campaigns.

I was reading an excellent article in the New Statesman to this effect - the short version it that far from fighting to advance the concept of gender equality, we should be fighting to abolish to social consturct of gender altogether.

I thought one line in it stuck out in particular:

"Gender is flawed – no set of social scripts will ever represent the wonderful diversity and intricacy of human behavior."

Aside from being a beautifully constructed sentence, it is also apt. There is so much diversity in this world that it's hard to categorize humanity based on two normative camps. Combined with the fact that other things exist largely on a wide spectrum (sexuality being the most obvious), is there any benefit to be gained from patriarchal concepts such as gender in this day and age?
 


silverharp

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I came across someone recently articulating the position that the correct number of genders is Zero not 2 and not a Tumblr 55 . it seems to cut through all this gender studies bullsh1t
 

GDPR

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Wombs, periods, testosterone...Oh I dont know, little things like them I suppose.
 

Prof Honeydew

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Disclaimer: Please familiarize yourself with the difference between sex and gender - sex is a biological description, gender is a behavioral and social construct more bound up in identity. Now that that's over with, let's begin:

With all the great work being done in the realm of advancing the cause of Gender Equality over the last few years, it still behooves progressives to critically analyse their own emphasis in these campaigns.

I was reading an excellent article in the New Statesman to this effect - the short version it that far from fighting to advance the concept of gender equality, we should be fighting to abolish to social consturct of gender altogether.

I thought one line in it stuck out in particular:

"Gender is flawed – no set of social scripts will ever represent the wonderful diversity and intricacy of human behavior."

Aside from being a beautifully constructed sentence, it is also apt. There is so much diversity in this world that it's hard to categorize humanity based on two normative camps. Combined with the fact that other things exist largely on a wide spectrum (sexuality being the most obvious), is there any benefit to be gained from patriarchal concepts such as gender in this day and age?
I'm surprised that the above was posted by someone using the sexist name of "Concerned Irishman".
 

silverharp

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Wombs, periods, testosterone...Oh I dont know, little things like them I suppose.
there are clearly only 2 genders in the biological sense, its the Sociological use of the term is more the topic I'd assume
 

shoneen

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I always thought "gender" was a more polite way of saying "sex". :confused:
 

Concerned Irishman

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GDPR

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there are clearly only 2 genders in the biological sense, its the Sociological use of the term is more the topic I'd assume
Look I have some typically masculine traits and my better half has some typically feminine traits- those dont make us anything but our "biological" gender "sociologically" or otherwise. I can identify as a martian but that wont stop me from being from planet earth.
 

talkingshop

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Disclaimer: Please familiarize yourself with the difference between sex and gender - sex is a biological description, gender is a behavioral and social construct more bound up in identity. Now that that's over with, let's begin:

With all the great work being done in the realm of advancing the cause of Gender Equality over the last few years, it still behooves progressives to critically analyse their own emphasis in these campaigns.

I was reading an excellent article in the New Statesman to this effect - the short version it that far from fighting to advance the concept of gender equality, we should be fighting to abolish to social consturct of gender altogether.

I thought one line in it stuck out in particular:

"Gender is flawed – no set of social scripts will ever represent the wonderful diversity and intricacy of human behavior."

Aside from being a beautifully constructed sentence, it is also apt. There is so much diversity in this world that it's hard to categorize humanity based on two normative camps. Combined with the fact that other things exist largely on a wide spectrum (sexuality being the most obvious), is there any benefit to be gained from patriarchal concepts such as gender in this day and age?
First of all there is no general agreement on what "gender" means, or that gender means anything different from "sex". That's all gender did mean before - it was was just another word for sex: saying a person was "of the female/feminine gender" was just another way of saying the person was of the "female sex" (for those who didn't want to use the word "sex"). Now there seems to be some vague acceptance that gender means something different from sex, but no one is really clear what.

Saying "gender is a behavioral and social construct" is very vague - what precisely do you by this? (And whatever you mean, it is likely that is it only one of many views of whatever "gender" means).
 

blokesbloke

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First of all, I apologise to the OP for the way I attacked him personally a while ago when he started an OP and I accused him of being a troll.

It wasn't fair and I apologise.

On the OP - I don't agree that gender roles are entirely patriarchal constructs. They may once have been, but the difficulty is that certain strains of feminism do the exact same thing with the only difference being that they emphasise the positive attitudes of "female" traits and the negative ones of "male" traits.

If we are to abolish all gender constructs, then some schools of feminist thought (matriarchy?) are going to have to stop doing exactly what the patriarchy did. The only difference is that the patriarchy tended to emphasise negative traits of all women, and they emphasise the positive (and sometimes the negatives of men).

It's an understandable reaction to negativity, but if we're to move beyond that stage and achieve true equality with no gender roles, it needs to end too.
 
Last edited:

Congalltee

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I came across someone recently articulating the position that the correct number of genders is Zero not 2 and not a Tumblr 55 . it seems to cut through all this gender studies bullsh1t
The two worst descriptions of a human:
- non-binary
- gender fluid.
(Followed by cisgender).

Cold, sterile, dehumanising and meaningless.
 

blokesbloke

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You are describing the biological aspects of sex, not gender
She is, but the fact remains that biological aspects do influence gender roles.

I am biologically male. It doesn't mean I have to have any typical "male" traits - but it does mean there are certain things which are uniquely feminine I simply cannot do.

I can wear "women's" clothing. I can have traditionally "female" traits.

I can't however have periods. I can't get pregnant - and those produce unique experiences and perhaps traits which simply cannot be replicated in a male.
 

blokesbloke

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I always thought "gender" was a more polite way of saying "sex". :confused:
No - that's a common misconception and some people do use it that way for precisely that reason, which has led to the confusion.
 

farnaby

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Blank slate BS.

The number of people who have a genuine mismatch between their sex and gender is miniscule. Great progress has been made recently to recognise the truth of their situation and support their reconciliation of this mismatch.

But it is ridiculous to make this a reason for breaking down all social constructs around gender. Socially assigned roles are flawed but provide much needed guidance for all people to adhere to or oppose, signposts to help us recognise who we are rather than trying to conjure everything up from the blank slate within. Their absence would leave us floundering for direction, which would increase the mental suffering of all.
 

Trainwreck

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Disclaimer: Please familiarize yourself with the difference between sex and gender - sex is a biological description, gender is a behavioral and social construct more bound up in identity.
No "gender" has always been a synonym for "sex" until the sociology/intersectional-feminist/progressive movement decided they needed another ridiculous concept on which to hang their latest nutjob ideological theories.

Any reputable dictionary has always defined gender as sex and sex as gender.

https://www.boundless.com/sociology/textbooks/boundless-sociology-textbook/gender-stratification-and-inequality-11/gender-and-socialization-86/the-social-construction-of-gender-496-8675/


The social construction of gender comes out of the general school of thought entitled social constructionism. Social constructionism proposes that everything people "know" or see as "reality" is partially, if not entirely, socially situated.
 

silverharp

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First of all, I apologise to the OP for the way I attacked him personally a while ago when he started an OP and I accused him of being a troll.

It wasn't fair and I apologise.

On the OP - I don't agree that gender roles are entirely patriarchal constructs. They may once have been, but the difficulty is that certainly strains of feminism do the exact same thing with the only difference being that they emphasise the positive attitudes of "female" traits and the negative ones of "male" traits.

If we are to abolish all gender constructs, then some schools of feminist thought (matriarchy?) are going to have to stop doing exactly what the patriarchy did. The only different is that the patriarchy tended to emphasise negative traits of all women, and they emphasise the positive.

It's an understandable reaction to negativity, but if we're to move beyond that stage and achieve true equality with no gender roles, it needs to end too.
it depends what you mean by "no gender roles"? there will certainly always be observable biases in behaviour depending on whether you are male or female. the lunacy of today is that if something isn't 50/50 its the fault of the evil "patriarchy" when more likely its down to ability or interest in whatever is being talked about.
 

Trainwreck

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it depends what you mean by "no gender roles"? there will certainly always be observable biases in behaviour depending on whether you are male or female. the lunacy of today is that if something isn't 50/50 its the fault of the evil "patriarchy" when more likely its down to ability or interest in whatever is being talked about.
People can behave how ever they like. Always have.

It is feminist philosophy disappearing up its own arse that since the 1990s has tried to assert there is any equivalence with their invention of "social constructs" for gender and sex,

Just look at how the whole load of nonsense collapses in the face of reality.

At the moment we are caught in this ridiculous argument about what "genders" should be allowed into which changing rooms to toilets. The "progressive" argument runs: gender is a social construct, a man may "identify" as a women, ergo, "she" has a right to use the "Women's" facilities.


Fine, but taking their own "gender= social construct; sex=biology" idiocy as a basis for debate, the facilities are defined by sex. They were always defined by sex - it far far predates "social constructionism".

So gender doesn't enter into it. You cna "identify" your gender however you want, but you can't go into facilities for the male "sex".

Just see what outrage that brings.
 

Congalltee

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it depends what you mean by "no gender roles"? there will certainly always be observable biases in behaviour depending on whether you are male or female. the lunacy of today is that if something isn't 50/50 its the fault of the evil "patriarchy" when more likely its down to ability or interest in whatever is being talked about.
What gender role is exclusive to irishmen, apart from ejaculating sperm? Hunting, fighting or winning bread are anachronisms. Does greater proficiency in maths make it a gender role? And if one removes my first example as a role of sex and not gender; is there really any gender role which is not grounded on stereotype?
 

Ruadh

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Aug 18, 2015
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Some women choose voluntarily to be classed by gender. So long as we argue that choice is equally valid, when argued by anyone man or woman, then we will always leave one plank for gender characterisation to stand on.
 

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