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Why does the Court Service claim Cork needs a new Courthouse?


Diawlbach

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The Court Service is about to waste millions to get civil servants free parking in Cork.

The have announced a new crime-only Courthouse will be built in Cork. Here's the thing; there's no need for it.

Anglesea Street has the District Court. As many courtrooms as judges, so no dead space, works a charm, straight across the road from a copshop. The main Cork Courthouse, on Washington Street, is uniquely suited for crime: prisoners can be brought in a secure side entrance into cells, and thence up into the dock from the cells, in either jury court. Works a charm. Judges have their own, secure, routes in and out, as do juries. It's perfect. Moreover, it's huge; last Tuesday, for example, there were three Circuit judges hearing criminal cases, two High Court judges down hearing commercial cases and a family law list on at the same time and there was still a courtroom free.

So, assuming it costs the same as the refurbishment (dragged out by civil servants, btw), what need is there to spend the cost of employing ten consultants for 25 years, or paying for an extra Circuit Court judge and High Court judge sitting permanently in Cork to use those courtrooms all year for 61 years - you know, administering justice, what courts are supposed to be for?

None. No-one has ever called for it. Except - the civil servants, poor dotes, who are in leased accommodation. The horror!

There has been no consultation on this. None.

So, why is it being done at all, throwing the leased accommodation one out for the nonsense it is? Because the plans include a car park. Where civil servants will be able to park without having to get parking discs like the rest of us.

This one needs to be shot down. It's a scandalous waste.

Cork to get new courthouse for criminal cases | Irish Examiner
 
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Ren84

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How do you know the old courthouse's aren't suitable? It could have been argued the Four Courts and Cloverhill were good enough for Dublin without the addition of the new Central Criminal Courts complex. We now see the new court building for the capital was needed.
 

Diawlbach

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How do you know the old courthouse's aren't suitable? It could have been argued the Four Courts and Cloverhill were good enough for Dublin without the addition of the new Central Criminal Courts complex. We now see the new court building for the capital was needed.
Because they were massively, and expensively, refurbished not ten years ago. The main jury courtrooms in Washington Street are video linked (as is one of the courtrooms upstairs; Cork can hold three jury trials at once) and if the accused is on remand he or she can be brought up stairs from the cells below straight into the dock in those courtrooms and from there straight out into the back of a prison van without ever leaving the secure cell section. That wasn't possible in the Four Courts; it is in Cork.

There are three judges on the Cork Circuit. Seven courtrooms, three of which can hear jury trials, in a secure Courthouse, which can do video-linked evidence. Since there's civil business has to be heard as well, you could appoint an extra Circuit judge and High Court judge, run two Circuit jury trials, a Central Criminal Court jury trial, and two civil Circuit Court lists, all at the same time, for a fraction of the cost, and get cases heard faster while still have two courtrooms spare.
 

Researchwill

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The part being left out of this debate is as follows. All county district court sitting will move into the city. If same happens there is not enough courts in DC building. So plan is to convert DC building into offices and give up rented space. The new building behind DC will house all criminal business for the county and city of cork.

Then all civil business will sit in Washington street. Again for whole city and County. The current setup would mean that neither DC building or Washington street could fit 5 DJ plus 3 Curcuit judges plus County Reg plus 2 high court judges when down. As Washington street can not be extended then the option if the county sittings are to cease is Anglesea street.

I currently am neither for nor against the idea untill I see more into. But I am leaning towards against based on the bringing of all DJ's and appeals and circuit sittings into the City.
 

NewGoldDream

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The utter insanity of centralising Courts, someone from Castletownbere will have a 250km round trip and over 4 hours of a journey ahead of them if they are brought to Cork City for District and Circuit Court matters. Wonder how much it'll cost to ferry the Gardai around.
 

ruserious

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Nice building. Would be perfect for government buildings whenever Cork is rightfully accepted as the real capital or we just declare independence.
 

Congalltee

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Possible answers to the thread question.

1. "Cork: The facilities in the courthouse in Anglesea Street are very limited with inadequate courtroom space, inadequate custody facilities and a shortage of space for staff, some of whom are in leased accommodation. An adjoining site in state ownership has been earmarked for the development."

2. Centralising of district courts

3. Dublin has a criminal and civil courthouse. The cork central
Criminal court and lower courts deserve a coliseum as well.
 

Diawlbach

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1. is nonsense. Because it's working fine, there have been no complaints - there's been no consultation for complaints to be made - and there are only so many judges, so anything else is dead space. Moreover, it's across the road from the main copshop in Cork, so scratch custody. That civil servants are in leased accommodation is no reason to waste money.

2. is also idiotic. As NGD pointed out, dragging someone up from the Beara means added cost and delays for everyone except the civil servants and, ironically, the lawyers (who don't want this). Moreover, if you are centralising District Courts, why move the Circuit Criminal Court out of the building you've spent €25 million on to ensure it can hear trials? Unnecessary, and a waste of money.

3. We have one. The largest courtrooms in the state, the two main ones on Washington Street. They work, it works, why waste money moving?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Nice building. Would be perfect for government buildings whenever Cork is rightfully accepted as the real capital or we just declare independence.
Will it still be nice when Cork has to pay for its upkeep, by itself? :)
 

Franzoni

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Nice building. Would be perfect for government buildings whenever Cork is rightfully accepted as the real capital or we just declare independence.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out........
 

Diawlbach

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Will it still be nice when Cork has to pay for its upkeep, by itself? :)
Considering Cork puts more into the national pot than it takes out: yes, it will. Especially with the oil money. Now, unless you'd like the State wasting more of your money, I suggest sticking to the point.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Considering Cork puts more into the national pot than it takes out: yes, it will. Especially with the oil money. Now, unless you'd like the State wasting more of your money, I suggest sticking to the point.
Ah, would you go tickle my ball bag? There was a smiley there for a reason!
 

artfoley56

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barrister in afraid of change shocker :D

joking aside, maybe you're going to get an equivalent to phoenix house; langer house
 

'orebel

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Diawlbach

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barrister in afraid of change shocker :D

joking aside, maybe you're going to get an equivalent to phoenix house; langer house
It's already there, down in Penrose Wharf. Not salubrious enough for civil servants to work in a perfectly fine office/retail set-up, it would seem.

Give you a further one a Dolphin Housist like you will appreciate. Straight across Washington Street from the Courthouse is the former ILS school. Bright, modernised rooms, wheelchair access, video linked, full IT spec, library downstairs, lots of private rooms for break-out sessions or consulations, grand big lecture room for Court sittings, ready to go right now and available for a pittance.

But it doesn't have parking for civil servants. So, why go with the cost-effective, quick, easy option if it means the civil servants have to pay for parking?
 

purpledon

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It's already there, down in Penrose Wharf. Not salubrious enough for civil servants to work in a perfectly fine office/retail set-up, it would seem.

Give you a further one a Dolphin Housist like you will appreciate. Straight across Washington Street from the Courthouse is the former ILS school. Bright, modernised rooms, wheelchair access, video linked, full IT spec, library downstairs, lots of private rooms for break-out sessions or consulations, grand big lecture room for Court sittings, ready to go right now and available for a pittance.

But it doesn't have parking for civil servants. So, why go with the cost-effective, quick, easy option if it means the civil servants have to pay for parking?
Wouldn't it be better to move all family law from the District and Circuit to the ILS school, thereby freeing up more court spac for the civil, commercial and criminal.

Is the OPW still paying €900,000 per year Camden Quay, (rented while Washington St was being refurbished), now empty?
 

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