Why Fianna Fail can cut the Minimum wage

junius

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Jul 31, 2010
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We should cut the minimum wage altogether or at least significantly lower it to European standards.

This stupidity is keeping prices high!

Who would accept a job wth crap pay anyway....minimum wage does NOT protect the worker....hardly anyone is on the bloody thing anyway.
Your attitude stinks! I thought people like you had diminished but obviously not yet! There are many many workers on the minimum wage and they're not herion addicts washing dishes in a hotel kitchen somewhere. They're my children with 2.1 hons. degrees in science under their belt. Long may you sit up there on your gilded stallion! Some day you or your children might be grovelling for a job with 'crap pay' as you put it!
 


Freedom front

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Nov 7, 2010
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The Spanish minimum wage is €2.97

Can we reduce it that low as Irish people seem to want to buy their cigarettes. medicines, food at Spanish prices.

Surely the costs of doing business would follow suit

Rent
Rates
Insurance
Waste
Telephone
Broadband
Light & heat
Software support
Bank interest
Bank fees
Bus fares
Credit card charges

Yeah right :(
Agree , cut the day to day costs by 20% and then cut Minimum wages, Dole PS salaries - but start with the cutting of costs & then swiftly wages
 

Lilliwhite

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Nov 10, 2010
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I believe that about 4% of the workforce is on the minimum wage. I also believe that most of the employers paying this are in the unskilled service area. Does anyone seriously think that these people are the root cause of our loss of competitiveness in the world market.

Does anyone think that a potential foreign investor who wants to set up in Ireland is only looking at the labour costs and not at all of the infrastructure and professional costs. Anyway would these jobs be sustainable or would they ship out to the next cheapest spot, as we have consistently seen with low paid low skill jobs.
It would serve the government better to start looking at the professional costs before hitting the lowest paid in our society.
 

ellie08

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Because their salaries cannot be touched according to the croke park deal, or as Clown called it the good friday agreement. The Croke Park Deal is like the American Declaration of Independent, it's ancient and wise, oh wait, it's not, it was set up by FF a few years ago to secure high wages for themselves and buy votes.
 

realistic1

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The main reason is that our MW is now 20% higher than the UK and only wealthy Luxembourg has a higher MW in the EU. A one euro cut although welcome, is still not enough.
No doubt the above poster has never had to live on the minimum wage in Ireland. This argument that Ireland has the highest minimum wage is false and does not take into account buying power. It is a fact that Irelands minimum wage is way down when you take into account buying power, services etc.
 

Skin

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Cutting the NMW is a complete red herring. One notion put forward here is "that it makes it easier to employ people". Nonsense. If I were on the dole today and was reluctant to take a job at €8.65, then I'll hardly be jumping for joy at the prospect of being paid €7.65. This is an effective 11.5% cut. The four year 'plan', incorporates a reduction of 10% for SW payments, thus further disincentivising the unemployed to take up work.
It has also been stated (on another thread and elsewhere), by those that support a cut in NMW, that between 2% - 3% are on NMW, thereby it wont bring too much hardship in the long-run. Yet the same shower of fraudsters will tell you that 50% of the workforce do not pay any income tax on their wages. If the cut-off point is €18,000. Then a full-time worker earning that much will at least have to work 39 hours per week for 52 weeks at €8.87ph. So if 50% are not paying income tax, it is wholly implausiable that only 2%-3% are on NMW.

Thirdly, the notion that cutting the NMW to €7.65 will open more job opportunities is a fallacy. There will be some token increase in available work, but for non-skilled labour primarily. The 425,000 that are now unemployed are obviously from that category? Not a chance!
 

Expatriot

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Huge amounts of the vote FF pulled in Dublin was from people on the dole and lower wages. FF was the working class party in Dublin until recently. It is quite amazing that the leadership of the party went off on a right wing political safari where there is virtually no support for them to be gained. Even the two core votes left(elderly and farmers) are effectively voting for state hand outs rather than right wing ideological reasons. FF tried to out flank FG and the PDs and wiped themselves out doing it.

The idea that nobody working class or low paid voted FF is the illusion that caused the party to eat itself. They believed way too much of their own BS. Too many Anglo dinners and race meetings.

As for those on the minimum wage that dont vote or are uninterested in politics, I bet they get interested pretty soon. When you cant afford a packet of fags its focuses the mind.
 

Expatriot

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Social welfare payments will have to be cut by more than the minimum wage or the pay would be a nonsense. That means over 40 euro a week off the dole. That is one hand grenade to hand to an incoming government. It is probably socially impossible to actually do. 20% cuts to the incomes of the poorest is not something any society can easily do without massive upheaval.
 

Skin

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Huge amounts of the vote FF pulled in Dublin was from people on the dole and lower wages. FF was the working class party in Dublin until recently. It is quite amazing that the leadership of the party went off on a right wing political safari where there is virtually no support for them to be gained. Even the two core votes left(elderly and farmers) are effectively voting for state hand outs rather than right wing ideological reasons. FF tried to out flank FG and the PDs and wiped themselves out doing it.

The idea that nobody working class or low paid voted FF is the illusion that caused the party to eat itself. They believed way too much of their own BS. Too many Anglo dinners and race meetings.

As for those on the minimum wage that dont vote or are uninterested in politics, I bet they get interested pretty soon. When you cant afford a packet of fags its focuses the mind.
At the last election the unemployment rate was between 4-5%. So it is wrong to assume that FF received huge amounts of the vote from the unemployed.
Secondly, of all the demographic groups, those in the 18-25 age bracket have by far the lowest rate of turnout at the elections. Those in the 65+ bracket have the highest. That is why FF targeted SW payments for those under 25 last year. That is why they are targeting the NMW now because primarily it is the 18-25yr who are paid that amount.
 

Expatriot

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At the last election the unemployment rate was between 4-5%. So it is wrong to assume that FF received huge amounts of the vote from the unemployed.
Secondly, of all the demographic groups, those in the 18-25 age bracket have by far the lowest rate of turnout at the elections. Those in the 65+ bracket have the highest. That is why FF targeted SW payments for those under 25 last year. That is why they are targeting the NMW now because primarily it is the 18-25yr who are paid that amount.
Maybe not at the last election but 10-15 years ago there were plenty of very low paid and unemployed in council estates in Dublin voting FF. Check the count records. It is effectively why Bertie became leader and Haughey. The old working class boy does well story goes down well.

Lab were alway seen are liberal middle class lefties from Trinity by your average Dub. As I said, cutting someones income is a different matter, its survival. If people think a left wing vote might save the SW payment they will vote.

I am unsure who FF thinks will vote for them other than pensioners and famrers now. The middle income people are going to be handed a massive bill by them, SW will be cut and services will fall apart. The aspiring classes have no hope. FF was the optimistic choice, left wing will be the survival choice now.

The State OAP will not be remaining above 200 euro a week when the dole falls to 15-160 euro, it would make no sense at all. And as for the CAP.

FF targeting sectors of society like that does not work for a broad based populist party, we all have a 20 year old in college in the family, or a granny or an unemployed relative. Its cuts no ice. We are not all as selfish as those making the calls on these cuts.
 

Skin

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Maybe not at the last election but 10-15 years ago there were plenty of very low paid and unemployed in council estates in Dublin voting FF. Check the count records. It is effectively why Bertie became leader and Haughey. The old working class boy does well story goes down well.

Lab were alway seen are liberal middle class lefties from Trinity by your average Dub. As I said, cutting someones income is a different matter, its survival. If people think a left wing vote might save the SW payment they will vote.

I am unsure who FF thinks will vote for them other than pensioners and famrers now. The middle income people are going to be handed a massive bill by them, SW will be cut and services will fall apart. The aspiring classes have no hope. FF was the optimistic choice, left wing will be the survival choice now.

The State OAP will not be remaining above 200 euro a week when the dole falls to 15-160 euro, it would make no sense at all. And as for the CAP.

FF targeting sectors of society like that does not work for a broad based populist party, we all have a 20 year old in college in the family, or a granny or an unemployed relative. Its cuts no ice. We are not all as selfish as those making the calls on these cuts.
Thats fair enough, but equally FG could lay claim to representing the working class and unemployed in large numbers outside of Dublin. I agree with your view of Labour at that time, and also did they ever make a genuine attempt to break into rural and provincial communities until now?

But I still believe it is wrong to assume that any of the parties represented the working class in any meaningful way. Certainly after the PAYE protests in the 80's things did change somewhat, but by and large the unemployed and working class have been bereft of any real representation in Dail Eireann, save Tony Gregory, and the Workers Party as it was then. SF were also the only real alternative but at the time were caught up in a war.
This time however I would expect strong gains for SF and left-leaning independents.
 

Watch The Break

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Everyone knows, minimum wage workers forced fianna fail to issue the Anglo bank guarantee. As well as that, even the loony left know that the Galway Tent was full to the brim with people on the minimum wage. They caused this mess and they should pay their share.
 

daveL

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Oct 29, 2010
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We should cut the minimum wage altogether or at least significantly lower it to European standards.

This stupidity is keeping prices high!

Who would accept a job wth crap pay anyway....minimum wage does NOT protect the worker....hardly anyone is on the bloody thing anyway.
:confused:

at least try and stay on message

you're aots with that
 

Expatriot

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Thats fair enough, but equally FG could lay claim to representing the working class and unemployed in large numbers outside of Dublin. I agree with your view of Labour at that time, and also did they ever make a genuine attempt to break into rural and provincial communities until now?

But I still believe it is wrong to assume that any of the parties represented the working class in any meaningful way. Certainly after the PAYE protests in the 80's things did change somewhat, but by and large the unemployed and working class have been bereft of any real representation in Dail Eireann, save Tony Gregory, and the Workers Party as it was then. SF were also the only real alternative but at the time were caught up in a war.
This time however I would expect strong gains for SF and left-leaning independents.

Your average floaty voter that won FF all those elections is not going to vote loony left or SF in 90% of cases. If Lab keeps its mouth shut about NI and abortion they will clean up these votes. FG are in a tight spot, it is the soft left wing and Republican wing of FF that is walking out the door, how can FG gain many of these votes? Lab just need to pretend to be FF 20 years ago and they are the new FF. FF will become the new PDs and SF the new Lab.
FG will just be FG.


After the election what remains of FF will have a huge fight for the heart of the party, as mainly rural conservative pro-business TDs will remain the more liberal urban wing will lose out. It will be virtually impossible for FF to ever regain its nationwide all things to all people label. I think a split or at least alot of resignations are on the cards. Alot of grass roots have already left in recent years anyway. There are alot of scores to settle in FF in opposition.

FG vs Lab is the election choice of the future, straight soft left vs soft right. FF is too confusing for people.
 

An Gilladaker

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I was discussing the recent proposal on cutting the minimum wage by one Euro with my local Fine Gael councillor and he told me the following is why they can take this measure. There is very few people on minimum wage who actually vote so it will not hit Fianna Fails falling vote anymore, it has also won Fianna Fail support among IBEC. Could this answer be that simple??
Do you mean financial support ?
 

Xipe Totec

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Who would accept a job wth crap pay anyway....minimum wage does NOT protect the worker....hardly anyone is on the bloody thing anyway.
yah!

the goys at the polo club awl tewtally agree - oi mean how many trips to brown thomas could you afford per week on a minimum wage job?????

if the unemployed have no mcjobs, let them be ceos
 

constitutionus

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Feb 19, 2007
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T'is a standard IMF budget isnt it?

cut the minimum wage, leave the blokes on the average alone and reward the millionaires with a kick back.

they did it in hungary IIRC and its happened here.

jaysus lads, you dont STILL think the gov are running the country do ya ?
 


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