Why I get p**sed off when I hear pay demands from Public Service workers

TheField

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Feb 9, 2012
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We have seen & heard a raft of demands for 'pay increases' and 'pay restoration' from public service workers in recent weeks. People mostly see things from their own perspective and no doubt these civil servants and semi state employees think they're hard done by. But others in the economy like myself get pretty annoyed at this sense of entitlement from a group of workers that have had it pretty good overall. For public service workers reading this, here's a different perspective.

I've been self employed, run a small business for many years. Our income stream varies from year to year but it's roughly divided between work for state / semi state bodies and work for other clients. The ratio has always varied from year to year; 60/40 some years, 40/60 other years. We've always looked after our public service clients well, both in terms of quality of work and time delivery. Ten years ago, our annual taxable income was about €60K, supporting a single income family.

Come the 'crash', a lot of our work for public bodies fell away as budgets were slashed. My contacts in the PS were still there behind their desks, their wages were paid and pension entitlements kept even if the FEMPI entailed some reduction in take home pay. For the first couple of years, I honestly don't know what these people did, as they had very small budgets to administer and few if any projects. I imagine many were just turning up and reading the paper, browsing the web from day to day. In time, some seem to have been deployed to other posts where there was work to be done.

In the meantime, our income also 'crashed' to down below €25K some years. In that situation, we could just have closed up shop and eventually drawn social welfare payments. But no, we cut our cloth and continued on in the conventional wisdom that those surviving the recession will benefit on the far side. We have continued paying tax as opposed to being a burden, some of that tax going to fund services and wages in the public service.

All good enough, except now the public finances are healthier and we might expect some restoration of budgets and new projects - yielding an improvement in income. But instead we see the extra cash being sucked up first by the self same PS workers who kept their jobs and largely their wages and entitlements all throughout.

Not impressed and pretty p**sed off.
 


drummed

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Oct 22, 2010
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This is a tragic plight you must endure.

I was going to suggest we start a support group to reduce the suffering.

But I won't. Because I couldn't care less.

In fact, you seem to have adopted the sort of woe is me mindset you claim you hate.
 

artfoley56

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Mar 24, 2011
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9,768
We have seen & heard a raft of demands for 'pay increases' and 'pay restoration' from public service workers in recent weeks. People mostly see things from their own perspective and no doubt these civil servants and semi state employees think they're hard done by. But others in the economy like myself get pretty annoyed at this sense of entitlement from a group of workers that have had it pretty good overall. For public service workers reading this, here's a different perspective.

I've been self employed, run a small business for many years. Our income stream varies from year to year but it's roughly divided between work for state / semi state bodies and work for other clients. The ratio has always varied from year to year; 60/40 some years, 40/60 other years. We've always looked after our public service clients well, both in terms of quality of work and time delivery. Ten years ago, our annual taxable income was about €60K, supporting a single income family.

Come the 'crash', a lot of our work for public bodies fell away as budgets were slashed. My contacts in the PS were still there behind their desks, their wages were paid and pension entitlements kept even if the FEMPI entailed some reduction in take home pay. For the first couple of years, I honestly don't know what these people did, as they had very small budgets to administer and few if any projects. I imagine many were just turning up and reading the paper, browsing the web from day to day. In time, some seem to have been deployed to other posts where there was work to be done.

In the meantime, our income also 'crashed' to down below €25K some years. In that situation, we could just have closed up shop and eventually drawn social welfare payments. But no, we cut our cloth and continued on in the conventional wisdom that those surviving the recession will benefit on the far side. We have continued paying tax as opposed to being a burden, some of that tax going to fund services and wages in the public service.

All good enough, except now the public finances are healthier and we might expect some restoration of budgets and new projects - yielding an improvement in income. But instead we see the extra cash being sucked up first by the self same PS workers who kept their jobs and largely their wages and entitlements all throughout.

Not impressed and pretty p**sed off.
You sure you're not patslatt
 

TheField

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In fact, you seem to have adopted the sort of woe is me mindset you claim you hate.
No, I'm just reflecting on how f**ked up this country is - where rewards are based not on what you do but on how loud you can shout and what sort of leverage you can apply. I'm well used to the idea that any small business must be tossed about like a bottle on the sea. Doesn't stop me getting pissed off at those passing by on the passenger liner.

It's the countries loss at the end of the day when so many small businesses have closed or reduced the services and products they used to supply.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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32,900
I think we need to sack them all. It's plain to me that they are a burden on the private sector from whom all good things come. Relatedly people should only be entitled to what they can pay for, no freeloading. Need the latest cancer treatment? Then earn sufficient to pay the doctors,the treatments and all analogous costs ( those private nurses don't come cheap).

Roads should only be built be hotels, factories and the like to facilitate their business models. Obviously environmental controls ought to bscrapped as the free market abhors externalities. Thie EU and governments largely ought to be scrapped too. All grants for farmers and incentives for business are anticompetitive.



Get out there and compete and if you can't well that's too bad.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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No, I'm just reflecting on how f**ked up this country is - where rewards are based not on what you do but on how loud you can shout and what sort of leverage you can apply. I'm well used to the idea that any small business must be tossed about like a bottle on the sea. Doesn't stop me getting pissed off at those passing by on the passenger liner.

It's the countries loss at the end of the day when so many small businesses have closed or reduced the services and products they used to supply.
Shouting loudly is doing something, it's organising the workforce into a union where the workers get some say over their work. If the private workers weren't so afraid of joining their unions maybe they could look after their interests too.
 

TheField

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I've no major problems with the need to have public service employees. Clearly we need as a society to have certain basic services and pay people to work in them. But public servants also need resources, funds and budgets to spend. It's pointless overpaying the PS, if this reduces their capacity to actually do anything.

But there are some we could get rid of. We need a navy (to police our waters) and an airforce is useful but having an army is a complete waste of public money. All they do is play 'cowboys and indians' down in Glen Imaal and do the odd parade. It's not as if they would be any fecking use if anyone invaded us.
 

firefly123

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Dec 8, 2009
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28,237
We have seen & heard a raft of demands for 'pay increases' and 'pay restoration' from public service workers in recent weeks. People mostly see things from their own perspective and no doubt these civil servants and semi state employees think they're hard done by. But others in the economy like myself get pretty annoyed at this sense of entitlement from a group of workers that have had it pretty good overall. For public service workers reading this, here's a different perspective.

I've been self employed, run a small business for many years. Our income stream varies from year to year but it's roughly divided between work for state / semi state bodies and work for other clients. The ratio has always varied from year to year; 60/40 some years, 40/60 other years. We've always looked after our public service clients well, both in terms of quality of work and time delivery. Ten years ago, our annual taxable income was about €60K, supporting a single income family.

Come the 'crash', a lot of our work for public bodies fell away as budgets were slashed. My contacts in the PS were still there behind their desks, their wages were paid and pension entitlements kept even if the FEMPI entailed some reduction in take home pay. For the first couple of years, I honestly don't know what these people did, as they had very small budgets to administer and few if any projects. I imagine many were just turning up and reading the paper, browsing the web from day to day. In time, some seem to have been deployed to other posts where there was work to be done.

In the meantime, our income also 'crashed' to down below €25K some years. In that situation, we could just have closed up shop and eventually drawn social welfare payments. But no, we cut our cloth and continued on in the conventional wisdom that those surviving the recession will benefit on the far side. We have continued paying tax as opposed to being a burden, some of that tax going to fund services and wages in the public service.

All good enough, except now the public finances are healthier and we might expect some restoration of budgets and new projects - yielding an improvement in income. But instead we see the extra cash being sucked up first by the self same PS workers who kept their jobs and largely their wages and entitlements all throughout.

Not impressed and pretty p**sed off.
You imagine?

I'm sure you do.
Everyone has it rosier don't they.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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www.publicjobs.ie for anyone that's jelly.
True dat. But short term thinking........I see only private sector entities working away in a progressive mode of friendly competition, a veritable meritocracy wher the best and the brightest are spurred night and day to gain an advantage which will only be of benefit to the users of the marketplace.

The millstone of Governments with their laws regulations and armies of so called public servants will be removed from the neck of the honest, hardworking, morally superior entrepreneur.
 

TheField

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You imagine?

I'm sure you do.
Everyone has it rosier don't they.
I refer to my contacts in the PS that I dealt with. I know from various chats that their budgets were heavily cut. So what work could they have been doing? Making cups of tea?
 

realistic1

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Jun 27, 2008
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Shouting loudly is doing something, it's organising the workforce into a union where the workers get some say over their work. If the private workers weren't so afraid of joining their unions maybe they could look after their interests too.
The unions have abandoned the private sector and instead concentrates on the handy public sector game. SIPTU even endorsed and worked with Jobsbridge, this is the reality private sector workers are up against.
 

ruserious

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The public sector only exists because the private sector is too selfish to undertake unprofitable but important business.

:cool:
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Messages
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I've no major problems with the need to have public service employees. Clearly we need as a society to have certain basic services and pay people to work in them. But public servants also need resources, funds and budgets to spend. It's pointless overpaying the PS, if this reduces their capacity to actually do anything.

But there are some we could get rid of. We need a navy (to police our waters) and an airforce is useful but having an army is a complete waste of public money. All they do is play 'cowboys and indians' down in Glen Imaal and do the odd parade. It's not as if they would be any fecking use if anyone invaded us.
True others on my list are the OPW, The ironically named Department of Trade and Enterprise, most of the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Housing and Local Governmnt.

In time to come those that are permitted to remain, Justice, Health and Education will be Business Process Reengineered to make them ripe for privatisation.
 

TheField

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The public sector only exists because the private sector generates real income and pays for the public sector.
 

Uganda

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Aug 17, 2013
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9,557
We have seen & heard a raft of demands for 'pay increases' and 'pay restoration' from public service workers in recent weeks. People mostly see things from their own perspective and no doubt these civil servants and semi state employees think they're hard done by. But others in the economy like myself get pretty annoyed at this sense of entitlement from a group of workers that have had it pretty good overall. For public service workers reading this, here's a different perspective.

I've been self employed, run a small business for many years. Our income stream varies from year to year but it's roughly divided between work for state / semi state bodies and work for other clients. The ratio has always varied from year to year; 60/40 some years, 40/60 other years. We've always looked after our public service clients well, both in terms of quality of work and time delivery. Ten years ago, our annual taxable income was about €60K, supporting a single income family.

Come the 'crash', a lot of our work for public bodies fell away as budgets were slashed. My contacts in the PS were still there behind their desks, their wages were paid and pension entitlements kept even if the FEMPI entailed some reduction in take home pay. For the first couple of years, I honestly don't know what these people did, as they had very small budgets to administer and few if any projects. I imagine many were just turning up and reading the paper, browsing the web from day to day. In time, some seem to have been deployed to other posts where there was work to be done.

In the meantime, our income also 'crashed' to down below €25K some years. In that situation, we could just have closed up shop and eventually drawn social welfare payments. But no, we cut our cloth and continued on in the conventional wisdom that those surviving the recession will benefit on the far side. We have continued paying tax as opposed to being a burden, some of that tax going to fund services and wages in the public service.

All good enough, except now the public finances are healthier and we might expect some restoration of budgets and new projects - yielding an improvement in income. But instead we see the extra cash being sucked up first by the self same PS workers who kept their jobs and largely their wages and entitlements all throughout.

Not impressed and pretty p**sed off.
When they say "pay restoration" , what they really mean is bring back the bertinomics of benchmarking.
 


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