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Why I no longer trust the EU on the backstop


jman0war

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Jun 13, 2008
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1,759
Why don't the British government grow a pair and put the DUP idiots in their place?
 

recedite

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Nov 20, 2010
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Why don't Varadkaer and Coveney grow a pair and stop pandering to Juncker's federalist and globalist megalomania.

Dump the backstop veto, get the WA signed, and hey presto... seamless border with free trade.
Simples.
 

cytex

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Joined
Nov 10, 2010
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3,423
Why don't Varadkaer and Coveney grow a pair and stop pandering to Juncker's federalist and globalist megalomania.

Dump the backstop veto, get the WA signed, and hey presto... seamless border with free trade.
Simples.
varadkar and convey are standing up for Irish interests not the EU they will not dump the backstop as it is the only thing on the table at the moment that avoids the hard border . There is nothing to say that a FTA can be drawn up with the UK this is what has the UK spooked as in that case they will have to remain within EU rules . That is the whole point . If a FTA can be drawn up like hey Presto then the backstop will never be used and the UK have nothing to fear . It would be irresposible for them to get rid of the backstop from a Irish interest point of view as that DOES ensure no hard border for a bunch of promises that may or may not happen . The worst case of their current position is a hard border the worst case of dumping the backstop is a hard border they have nothing to lose by sticking to their guns.

If there is someother way of avoiding a hard border that is equally as effective then May needs to table it but they havent because there is not.
 

recedite

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Nov 20, 2010
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varadkar and convey are standing up for Irish interests not the EU they will not dump the backstop as it is the only thing on the table at the moment that avoids the hard border .
Looks to me like the Varadkar/Coveney backstop veto is preventing a WA and therefore it causes a hard border.
If you think that's in Irelands interests, then you are wrong.
There is nothing to say that a FTA can be drawn up with the UK .
That is true, but at least the WA guarantees free trade for a 2 year transition period.
After that, we know the UK side would want it to continue. If the hard border got introduced in 2 years time, blame Juncker.

Or, if we continue on current misguided strategy, we can have our hard border in only 8 weeks.
 

NMunsterman

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May 18, 2007
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6,116
Looks to me like the Varadkar/Coveney backstop veto is preventing a WA and therefore it causes a hard border.
If you think that's in Irelands interests, then you are wrong.

That is true, but at least the WA guarantees free trade for a 2 year transition period.
After that, we know the UK side would want it to continue. If the hard border got introduced in 2 years time, blame Juncker.

Or, if we continue on current misguided strategy, we can have our hard border in only 8 weeks.

The British Parliament can continue to bicker and argue amongst themselves all they want about the WA and whatever else.


The European Parliament will not ratify any WA without the Backstop.
Period.
 

Wagmore

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Sep 17, 2015
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11,712
You may remember that Francois Hollande argued publicly that Britain would need to suffer from Brexit, otherwise "other countries might get the idea of leaving the EU." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/07/uk-must-pay-price-for-brexit-says-francois-hollande

Although he did not explicitly say so (at least in what I have seen), his meaning seemed to be that if the consequences of leaving were not going to be sufficiently bad, then the EU should act to ensure that they were - i.e. should deliberately act to harm Britain and the British people.


After a little bit of thought, other EU politicians realised how unacceptable it would be to try to do such harm and there were several statements to this effect e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/18/not-punish-britain-shed-illusions-eu-fair-deal

I believed these statements and was happy with the talks and the eventual agreement, including the backstop - although in some ways it was an a unusual thing to ask in negotiations - "I want you to promise that I will not introduce a hard border between the Republic and Northern Ireland" - and I did wonder about the reluctance of the EU to accept that technology could be accepted to be able to provide a good solution in the longer term

However, there remained in my mind the possibility that the EU (or elements within it) were trying to use the backstop as a way of making Britain pay a "suitable" price for Brexit - see https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/top-eu-diplomat-said-northern-ireland-the-price-to-pay-for-brexit-claims-former-minister-37608318.html

I now no longer trust the EU on the backstop. What has changed my mind is -

1) The EU claims that the backstop is intended to be temporary, but is reluctant to commit to this.

2) The EU claimed that the only motivation for the backstop was to prevent a hard border. But now that its insistence on the backstop seems to be increasing the risk of a hard Brexit and a hard border, the EU insists on sticking to the backstop.


In short, there seems to be a discrepancy between the EU positions in non-binding public statements ("backstop is temporary", "no wish to punish Britain") and the EU positions in legally-binding treaty statements ("backstop is time unlimited") and in private statements.

In consequence, my perception is that the EU is not currently fully trust-worthy on this matter.
Only on this matter?!! The EU is not to be trusted period. Leotard rowing in with these creeps at the risk of blowing bridge with our greatest cultural and economic partner is an act of epic idiocy and national self-sabotage.
 

recedite

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
1,407
The European Parliament will not ratify any WA without the Backstop.
Period.
So they say. At least for now.
But the UK reckon they will.
And that is the Great Game of Chicken.

Leotard is playing this game.
Its all to lose for Ireland if UK does not back down first, and nothing extra to be won if they do.
 

runwiththewind

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Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,696
Only on this matter?!! The EU is not to be trusted period. Leotard rowing in with these creeps at the risk of blowing bridge with our greatest cultural and economic partner is an act of epic idiocy and national self-sabotage.
Nah, it's the greatest thing ever.
 

wombat

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
31,937
The objection to the backstop is that it could tie the UK to the Customs Union indefinitely. Remove the backstop and you still have the problem that the Brexit supporters want to leave the common fisheries and common agricultural agreements. They think that the EU are so desperate to protect free access for industrial goods that they will agree to ditch every other sector.
 
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