Why is Ireland's labour force participation rate so low compared to other advanced economies?

Patslatt1

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
 


Clanrickard

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
You can live all your life in some knackeragua here because there is no ned of do gooders and hand wringers who will shout down any attempt at tough love. Social Justice Ireland want you to pay up and shut up so people with no desire to look for a job get well looked after and few politicians have the líathroidí to fight back. I thought Leo might but so far it is same old same old.
 

robut

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
But to an extent are we not doing similar anyway? Many people drop off the live register only to be put in a scheme, a course, a government sponsored program, still paid by us, the taxpayer. And listed as EMPLOYED?

Ireland ranks poorly for low paid workers

Also add many lower paid working people in this country in recent times who are also state subsidised via likes of Family Income Suppliment ( FIS ).

4,000 public servants forced to apply for income supplement - From 2013, not sure if changed since

I mean, how many of the employed here in this country are actually self sufficient wage wise and not depending on the state some how? And then how many are off live register but actually still fully paid by the state in schemes etc?

What I am afraid of is many of the jobs created over the last 5 years are low pay and that Ireland is now a low pay economy? If so, is that sustainable going forward?

Also in my view we have a huge skills shortage amongst our own indiginous workforce? Our much vaunted well educated workforce thing. Look at all those job announcements in recent years ( eg Jobs Jobs Jobs thread ), mainly coming to Dublin and mainly in IT, Software dev etc. I would bet that most of these are being filled NOT by our indiginous Irish worker but have to be filled from abroad because our workforce lacks the required skills?

Ireland’s skills gap shows no sign of easing – Hays

Sharing the title with Spain, Portugal and the US, Ireland’s talent mismatch has been rated the highest around, with wage pressures making it extremely hard for companies to source talent.
 
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SamsonS

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
This is the % of the adult opoulation involved in the labour force.

For Ireland the highest I can find is 64.7% in q3 2017. This is also the q with the highest number of people employed, 2169m.

Think were at about 60/61% at the end of 2016.


Can't say I know why - but I do see a bit of a mismatch between the monthly unemployment figures and the numbers on live register greater than 12 months. That to me would imply that at least some on the live register are not being counted as unemployed - it might be perfectly legitimate, a person could be unemployed for 20 years on live register and have no hope of getting a job.
On the other side, this should be compensated for by people on other social welfare payments who regard themselves as unemployed - say someone on One Parent payment, or contributory widows payment etc- so should be counted in the labour force.

I do recall a scheme from the 1980's that was introduced to me it seemed to take a small cohort of people off the live register - it was called Single Women's Allowance, and paid to women over the age of 55 or something. It was so that they would not have to go down the dole office and go through the processes that others had to, but also an acceptance that their chances of securing employment were slim.

Of course others regarded as an attempt to hide the numbers on live register - back then they were called the opposition, and the crowd saying it was a great scheme were called the government, and SamsonS had most of his hair, and we had 6 channels.....
 

silverharp

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Low skills migration and it dampening wages might be an issue? cant compete with people that are willing to live 20 in a small house and do all the jobs "the Irish wont do"

otherwise incentives, maybe young people under 23 shouldn't be entitled to any social welfare unless its education/training related.

amend the mandatory retirement age, that's going to happen anyway at some stage
 

General Urko

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Why is Ireland's labour force participation rate so low compared to other advanced economies?

Is Ireland an 'Advanced Economy'?
Especially with its absurd leprauchain economic figues and the beyond comprehension Public-Private sector pay, perks and pension gap.
And above all the way private sector employees are treated so badly in the BMW region and indeed the economic activity gap between Dublin and the rest?
 

General Urko

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Low skills migration and it dampening wages might be an issue? cant compete with people that are willing to live 20 in a small house and do all the jobs "the Irish wont do"

otherwise incentives, maybe young people under 23 shouldn't be entitled to any social welfare unless its education/training related.

amend the mandatory retirement age, that's going to happen anyway at some stage
The social welfare entitlements for U26s have been disgracefully destroyed by the last few administrations (Troika Party complete and utter treacherous trousering shyte) and the sole reason for that is to force uppity young people who are likely to rebel out of here!:mad:
 

General Urko

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If you have worked and been treated like shyte, do you have a right to opt out? Don't forget that many people in low wage jobs, which is essentially life expectancy decreasing work, who jump treble sommersaults for their sleeveen scum employers will be expected to jump quadruple sommersaults tommorrow! That's the way it works, but it's much more common in The BMW Private sector.
In reality in those environments, it doesn't matter how hard you work or what your abilities are, you will bang your head off a very low glass ceiling very quickly!
 
D

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
The figures are based on adults between 15 and 64. You need, therefore, to look at participation rates in secondary, third level and postgraduate education to get a more complete picture.
 

silverharp

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The social welfare entitlements for U26s have been disgracefully destroyed by the last few administrations (Troika Party complete and utter treacherous trousering shyte) and the sole reason for that is to force uppity young people who are likely to rebel out of here!:mad:
I would do it to my kids if they wouldn't get off the scratcher, I'd prefer them drilling for oil in Alaska or working on a cargo ship rather than shooting the wolf at the door and let them veg at home
 

General Urko

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I would do it to my kids if they wouldn't get off the scratcher, I'd prefer them drilling for oil in Alaska or working on a cargo ship rather than shooting the wolf at the door and let them veg at home
You are kind of missing the point, young people have been forced out, not because they are lazy, but because they are perceived as a threat to the 2 1/2 troika party status quo!
 

RadicalJacobin

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
So what's your suggestion? We force people to work in jobs that would clearly make them worse off and further poverty and social deprivation in this country? The idea that everyone on the dole is scamming it and are just trying to avoid work is frankly, complete rubbish. For all of these great jobs that have been created after the crash the vast majority of them are low-waged with poor conditions that no one who had any kind of choice would do. I'm not saying that those on job-seekers don't have to actually seek employment but maybe our priority should be on creating better jobs, improving both worker's rights and conditions and increasing the minimum wage. Surely if people can actually live off the wage they earn from a job then participation will go up.
 

robut

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See https://data.oecd.org/emp/labour-force-participation-rate.htm

In the link,Ireland's labour force participation rate for people of working age looks low compared to other advanced economies such as the UK. This issue deserves close attention in a growing Irish economy which is beginning to experience labour shortages, especially in the construction sector.

While past unemployment is blamed on the financial crash, labour force paticipation rates in Ireland were relatively low even during the Celtic Tiger. The OECD criticised Ireland for failing to encourage people to return to work. Despite low income taxes on modest incomes,a major problem for some is that work is less attractive than social welfare,possibly plus nixers.

In contrast, some countries like Germany take a tough love approach. Under Schroeder's government, pressure put on the East German unemployed to work even in areas of chronic high unemployment met with considerable success.

Ireland's employment is helped considerably by the low employer payroll tax rate on employers. If Irish employers had to pay the huge payroll taxes to cover health care and social benefits in the advanced EU countries,our unemployment would be considerably worse. In some of these countries like France and Belgium which spend massively on government, a lot of unemployment is masked by government jobs of dubious worth. As the economist Milton Friedman joked, unemployment could be abolished at the stroke of a pen if governments designated the unemployed as civil servants assigned to home duty.
BUT but ... have you forgotten Prsi, Paye and the big one USC that strips that "modest income" .. also add high consumption tax ie VAT @23%, again eats into this "modest income" .. Im sure others could add more??

Saying we have low income tax while not also highlighting the other taxes is a bit disingenuous?? Because adding them all up would add up to a HIGH Income Tax else where surely?? They are all taxes that reduce your wage significantly and also lower spend ability in the economy?

To avoid USC one would want to be on a very very low wage here ??
 

silverharp

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You are kind of missing the point, young people have been forced out, not because they are lazy, but because they are perceived as a threat to the 2 1/2 troika party status quo!
hmmmm , Like I said plenty of jobs out there, they are just being filled in an unsustainable way. need to curb inward migration and clear off any illegals in the country. Anyone I know with kids in college etc find it very hard to impossible to get parttime/summer jobs yet its near impossible to give a food order to someone who speaks English as their first language.
 

SamsonS

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BUT but ... have you forgotten Prsi, Paye and the big one USC that strips that "modest income" .. also add high consumption tax ie VAT @23%, again eats into this "modest income" .. Im sure others could add more??

Saying we have low income tax while not also highlighting the other taxes is a bit disingenuous?? Because adding them all up would add up to a HIGH Income Tax else where surely?? They are all taxes that reduce your wage significantly and also lower spend ability in the economy?

To avoid USC one would want to be on a very very low wage here ??
But at low levels of earnings that is small for the employee. For example a single person on 20k per annum, takes home 18.2k. Of the 1790 they pay, USC is 290, tax is 700 and PRSI is 800.
If married and with no kids they would not be paying the 700 tax, but would have the other two.
If married and with 1 kid they would also get FIS of about €88 per week - the FIS being worth 4500 over the year, compared with the €990 that USC and PRSI would cost them in a week.
 

General Urko

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hmmmm , Like I said plenty of jobs out there, they are just being filled in an unsustainable way. need to curb inward migration and clear off any illegals in the country. Anyone I know with kids in college etc find it very hard to impossible to get parttime/summer jobs yet its near impossible to give a food order to someone who speaks English as their first language.
I would put a rider on that statement, there are quite a few really poor quality jobs out there, the kind I describe as life expecatncy decreasing ones!
Also our Polish Cousins etc. are quite established here now and a certain amount will be in managerial positions and many of those will be in a position to hire people for those shyte jobs and they won't be going to Paddies!
There have also been reports of Paddy Companies hiring directly from Eastern Europe and it was not in cases where spoecific language skills or other highly specialized skills were required.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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ireland's generous dole is the ruination of the nation.

encouraging people to languish idly.
Making it difficult for employers to recruit for minimum wage jobs.
Causing the pull of immigration into ireland for both dole and jobs.
Immigration causing a housing crisis.
High dole propping up rents that working people must pay.
 

Schuhart

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Don't forget that many people in low wage jobs, which is essentially life expectancy decreasing work, who jump treble sommersaults for their sleeveen scum employers will be expected to jump quadruple sommersaults tommorrow! That's the way it works, but it's much more common in The BMW Private sector.
Can you explain a little more on why this is much more common in the BMW private sector?
 

silverharp

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I would put a rider on that statement, there are quite a few really poor quality jobs out there, the kind I describe as life expecatncy decreasing ones!
Also our Polish Cousins etc. are quite established here now and a certain amount will be in managerial positions and many of those will be in a position to hire people for those shyte jobs and they won't be going to Paddies!
There have also been reports of Paddy Companies hiring directly from Eastern Europe and it was not in cases where spoecific language skills or other highly specialized skills were required.
Im sure and not much can be done about EU migration but coupled with all the rest its a huge dampener on wages and opportunities.
 

General Urko

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Can you explain a little more on why this is much more common in the BMW private sector?
I think it's down to -

1 A more militant less tolerant worker in Dublin, the memory of the 1913 abuses are alive and well

2 Quite simply, employers in The Borders/Midlands and West can get away with it, due to lack of opportunties in those areas. The refrain is 'The door is there for you' is what you will commonly hear and when you have done the impossible for them and you look for something extra in return, you will be told 'You were paid for it'!:mad:

3 Traditionally, though there were a few dishonourable exceptions, multinationals in these areas were better employers than the local independent cúntz. However, now with employing people almost exclusively through job agencies for shopfloor jobs, they have joined the race to the bottom and in cases are starting to lead it! This is a further reflection of how ordinary peoples' rights are being eroded and because there are actually unions in some of these places, how much our gobshyte trade union movement has been well and truly bought off!:mad:
 


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