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Why is it so hard to pay tax in Ireland?


Disillusioned democrat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
15,640
I just got my annual "birthday card" from Rev Com - a 16 page Dickensian form that is harder to read than Ulysses and about as relevant to me as a map of Atlantis..."retirement relief for certain sportspersons?????

It's a nightmare to fill out - spouse's PPSN, salary, USC, etc, - all info they already have...they gave them to us afterall.

It's a real joy-killer to have to fill this out annually and I can't help thinking, as I key in this post, that there MUST be a better , easier way to give the government 50% of my salary....yet I seem to have to do all the work there too.

Does anyone else really, really hate the annual tax return form process, and can anyone come up with a better way?
 

Bow tie

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
351
Can you use ROS for self assessed returns? Don't know if the figures are all automatically there though. But the PAYE anytime system is pretty decent, now linked to the LPT too.
 

Mushroom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
15,777
Have you tried using Form 12S instead of Form 12?

It's a shorter, simplified version of Form 12 and can be downloaded from revenue.ie.
 

ChickenBiryani

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
686
The problem with the Irish tax system, and to be fair, we are not alone in this, is that it has evolved over a long period of time with various changes implemented by different governments and vested interest groups along the way. Once introduced, a relief or a tax becomes hard to give up and the political reality of the situation (just look at the problems we have at the moment for evidence) is there is never an opportunity to stand back and say, "if I had known where I was going to end up, I never would ahve done it this way".


Its like a simple excel spreadsheet that morphs into something massive and complicated, and you know you should redesign it knowing what your end game is, but you can't bear the thoughts of doing it.

I must admit though, ROS has made things far easier and if you are having issues you should definitely register.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,201
It is very "easy" to pay tax in Ireland.

Once you have a job, and you try to pay your way, you get taxed at every opportunity that the authorities can present themselves with.

Unless you are tax resident abroad, and you own chunks of the Irish media.
 

Howya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
It is very "easy" to pay tax in Ireland.

Once you have a job, and you try to pay your way, you get taxed at every opportunity that the authorities can present themselves with.

Unless you are tax resident abroad, and you own chunks of the Irish media.
Or you get a job in Ireland where you get paid lots of different tax free allowances, unvouched expenses, tax free lump sum on retirement etc etc...
 

EoinMag

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4,950
We need an ID card system and the exchange of information between government departments. If not then you have to keep filling out forms every time.
Even with an ID card system there are forms to fill out, but it would make it easier for sure.
 

Mattarigna

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
5,135
We need an ID card system and the exchange of information between government departments. If not then you have to keep filling out forms every time.
Even with an ID card system there are forms to fill out, but it would make it easier for sure.
Definitely. ID cards would also be useful for so many other things as well.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
I just got my annual "birthday card" from Rev Com - a 16 page Dickensian form that is harder to read than Ulysses and about as relevant to me as a map of Atlantis..."retirement relief for certain sportspersons?????

It's a nightmare to fill out - spouse's PPSN, salary, USC, etc, - all info they already have...they gave them to us afterall.

It's a real joy-killer to have to fill this out annually and I can't help thinking, as I key in this post, that there MUST be a better , easier way to give the government 50% of my salary....yet I seem to have to do all the work there too.

Does anyone else really, really hate the annual tax return form process, and can anyone come up with a better way?
This is something I am dreading about moving back to Ireland.

In Sweden tax is really straightforward and easy enough. Just follow the rules and there is usually no problems. Some rules are annoying, but thats OK. Try to rip them off and they set Kronofogden (debt collection agency from hell) upon you. My main bugbear with them is, if self employed, you have to pay your tax upfront every month. They make sure they get there tax.

In Sweden I get a form in the spring. It has about 16 pages in it as well. However it is clearly laid out in plain simple language. The people in the tax office tend to be helpful, if you call in person.

I import about 15 items a year from outside the EU for personal use. There is no problem with the VAT and import duty, as well as no fees from customs, unlike Ireland where the parcel is stopped and you have to call to the people in the post office customs unit, instead of just posting it on with bill attached. In Sweden I just pay my VAT and import duty when I receive the bill and if there is any difference I pay it or get refunded.

In Denmark, the tax return at the end of the year is like a cross between something invented by Marquis De Sade and a beurocrat with obsessive compulsive disorder who has unleashed there wildest dream.

I am dreading the backward Irish tax system when I go back.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
Definitely. ID cards would also be useful for so many other things as well.
Actually a number that covers everything from health to tax would be really handy.

They have that system on parts of the continent and it makes life a lot easier.

The number is on your ID card. Makes banking, tax, healthcare, credit, finance, home shopping, etc a lot easier and less of a hassle.
 

sauntersplash

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,466
This is something I am dreading about moving back to Ireland.

In Sweden tax is really straightforward and easy enough. Just follow the rules and there is usually no problems. Some rules are annoying, but thats OK. Try to rip them off and they set Kronofogden (debt collection agency from hell) upon you. My main bugbear with them is, if self employed, you have to pay your tax upfront every month. They make sure they get there tax.

In Sweden I get a form in the spring. It has about 16 pages in it as well. However it is clearly laid out in plain simple language. The people in the tax office tend to be helpful, if you call in person.

I import about 15 items a year from outside the EU for personal use. There is no problem with the VAT and import duty, as well as no fees from customs, unlike Ireland where the parcel is stopped and you have to call to the people in the post office customs unit, instead of just posting it on with bill attached. In Sweden I just pay my VAT and import duty when I receive the bill and if there is any difference I pay it or get refunded.

In Denmark, the tax return at the end of the year is like a cross between something invented by Marquis De Sade and a beurocrat with obsessive compulsive disorder who has unleashed there wildest dream.

I am dreading the backward Irish tax system when I go back.
The system you describe doesn't really sound dramatically different to the Irish one. What are you dreading exactly?
 

dagenict

Active member
Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
183
Twitter
dagenict
Iam an old age pensioner .Worked all my life as a mechanic. Three years ago i was invited to go on a holiday to the USA. I used some savings to optain a Master card, When i returned i had 700Euro in the account. Yestarday i could be forgiven for thinking i was livingin Cyprus. The gov have been going into my account. IT is now worth 577Euro.I intend to cut the card in small pieces .I like to send it to MR robbers to prove they are Robbing the pensionar. while the bankers go free.
 

corporal punishment

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
2,889
I feel your pain. I've been paying off my BOI credit card while not using it. I had it down to €30 and was going to pay it off and close the account next week. Then the statement arrives yesterday. Another €30 on top of my balance - Gov't duty.

As for the tax return form, I've long held the view that it's deliberately convoluted to discourage self assessment. Go to an accountant and keep the trough nice and full for the professional classes.
 

Howya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
Iam an old age pensioner .Worked all my life as a mechanic. Three years ago i was invited to go on a holiday to the USA. I used some savings to optain a Master card, When i returned i had 700Euro in the account. Yestarday i could be forgiven for thinking i was livingin Cyprus. The gov have been going into my account. IT is now worth 577Euro.I intend to cut the card in small pieces .I like to send it to MR robbers to prove they are Robbing the pensionar. while the bankers go free.
I suspect that you are being "done" by the annual gov tax of €30 plus the annual charge the credit card company charges for the privilege of keeping a credit card in your wallet.

See it is "easy" to pay tax in Ireland....
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,459
It could be worse; it could be a job-seekers' benefit form you are filling out :)
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
The system you describe doesn't really sound dramatically different to the Irish one. What are you dreading exactly?
In Ireland when self employed, there is always something stupid to deal with every year.

Also the people in the tax office are useless for sorting out problems. They usually make things worse, instead of sorting things out.
 
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