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Why is the justice system so lenient.




owedtojoy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
45,994
This country is in serious need of a three strike rule.
Most Americans in the justice system agree the "Three Strikes and Out" law has been a disaster. It has exploded the prison population, driven up costs way beyond what is reasonable. Some prisons are so crowded they are a danger to both prisoners and guards. Crimes rates have fallen, mostly for other reasons, but prison population has not.

One driver has been the private companies who manage large prisons, who make sure palms are well greased to keep draconian laws on the statute books, and prison populations high.

Criminal justice reform one topic on what many US Democrats and Republicans are united.

It would be a massive mistake to duplicate a failing system here in Ireland.

The Improbable Success of a Criminal-Justice-Reform Bill Under Trump

The significant buy-in from the right is the culmination of years of effort from a cadre of libertarian-leaning conservatives, like the anti-tax zealot Grover Norquist, and evangelicals, such as Chuck Colson, the founder of the Christian nonprofit organization Prison Fellowship, who have worked to convince others that the prison system has become too costly, punitive, and government-empowering.
America is finally being exposed to the devastating reality of prison violence
 

Patslatt1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
3,769
Most Americans in the justice system agree the "Three Strikes and Out" law has been a disaster. It has exploded the prison population, driven up costs way beyond what is reasonable. Some prisons are so crowded they are a danger to both prisoners and guards. Crimes rates have fallen, mostly for other reasons, but prison population has not.

One driver has been the private companies who manage large prisons, who make sure palms are well greased to keep draconian laws on the statute books, and prison populations high.

Criminal justice reform one topic on what many US Democrats and Republicans are united.

It would be a massive mistake to duplicate a failing system here in Ireland.

The Improbable Success of a Criminal-Justice-Reform Bill Under Trump



America is finally being exposed to the devastating reality of prison violence
Those violent prisons were state run. The private prisons in the UK deal with prisoners convicted of low level crimes. Let's not rush to judgement to condemn all private prisons. Let's see if they can reduce reoffending under the new government incentive plan in England.
 

neiphin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
5,585
Those violent prisons were state run. The private prisons in the UK deal with prisoners convicted of low level crimes. Let's not rush to judgement to condemn all private prisons. Let's see if they can reduce reoffending under the new government incentive plan in England.
iam nut sure youre correct on that

but anyway, what time period would you suggest for people to look back on the pro's con's of the political system
 

toughbutfair

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Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
9,767
We could easily lock up thousands of more scumbags without spending more money. However, the left want to protect prisoners and make prison a not horrible place. If we had Brazilian style jails with dozens in a cell with piss bags , we could reduce crime but the left care more about the scumbags.
 

Herr Rommel

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
8,908
Most Americans in the justice system agree the "Three Strikes and Out" law has been a disaster. It has exploded the prison population, driven up costs way beyond what is reasonable. Some prisons are so crowded they are a danger to both prisoners and guards. Crimes rates have fallen, mostly for other reasons, but prison population has not.

One driver has been the private companies who manage large prisons, who make sure palms are well greased to keep draconian laws on the statute books, and prison populations high.

Criminal justice reform one topic on what many US Democrats and Republicans are united.

It would be a massive mistake to duplicate a failing system here in Ireland.

The Improbable Success of a Criminal-Justice-Reform Bill Under Trump



America is finally being exposed to the devastating reality of prison violence
One or two super jails built to hold a thousand and double up the numbers if it gets to crowded make them suffer in prison breaking rocks and slopping out their own pi55 and sh1tę once a day. If you are still getting large numbers of lawbreakers who want to risk it than make the prison a lot more dangerous any random deaths or accidents involving the prison scum to be brushed under the carpet.

You need to make prison so unappealing to the law breaking scum that the thoughts of a life of crime has the, thinking they might not survive a stint in prison.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,426
I set up this thread on Mar 26, 2014. What thread are you on about?
I did not dismiss any thread. Just could not find any active thread on the same subject at the time.
You're now in the position of fighting with your supporter. ;)

Another poster started a thread which was a duplicate of yours and my posts pointed out that the new thread had nothing that your thread wasn't already dealing with and that duplicating threads is disrespectful to the OP.

The offending thread has now been merged with yours, beginning at post No. 1,715.
 

Windowshopper

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Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
9,003
I am not sure prision is valuable with the exception of serious crimes or as a last resort. We don't want to end up like the freedom loving US with the highest incarnation rate in the world. Do we want revenge or an actual corrections system.

 

Windowshopper

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
9,003
We could easily lock up thousands of more scumbags without spending more money. However, the left want to protect prisoners and make prison a not horrible place. If we had Brazilian style jails with dozens in a cell with piss bags , we could reduce crime but the left care more about the scumbags.
Yeah because that has stopped crime in Brazil.
 

Windowshopper

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Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
9,003
If we want to drive down crime, then we should invest in quality social services to target those most at risk of becoming criminals.

Brutalizing prisoners might be psychically satisfying but it just adds to the store of human misery.
 

PBP voter

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Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,025
One common criminal was on the radio last week. He seemed to suggest that the "patriarchal society" in the north inner city was to blame for him being a scumbag.


:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Baron von Biffo

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,426
I am not sure prision is valuable with the exception of serious crimes or as a last resort. We don't want to end up like the freedom loving US with the highest incarnation rate in the world. Do we want revenge or an actual corrections system.

Prison as a corrections system is well intentioned failure. Rather than correction we should be looking to our prisons as a means of incapacitation.

Criminals should be entering prison much, much earlier in their careers - after 2 or 3 offences rather than 60 or 70 as it stands today. Then recidivism should be seen as a separate offence that attracts progressively longer sentences on top of and consecutive to the sentence for the underlying offence.

It won't reduce the number of criminals but it will reduce the number of victims.
 

Sweet Darling

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Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
4,327
Can someone explain why the justice system in this State favours not giving custodial sentences to recidivist criminals. The below is just another example of an individuals with numerous convictions, receiving a suspended sentence. It seems to me that this is becoming a common occurrence, especially for criminals with numerous convictions. What good comes from not locking this individual away? This article is from the Limerick leader and I am sure P.ie posters could show similar links from their local newspapers. Please feel free to add other lenient sentences reports.

âSemi nakedâ man banned from Limerick hotel - Limerick Leader
The reason the system lacks revenge for the victims is because there are no judges from working class back grounds.
The present lot of judges are "upper class" and see all people from low income back grounds as potential criminals. and therefore victims of society. But if more judges were appointed from "poor" areas they would not be fooled by this view. They like the people in the areas the crimbo's terrorize don't care if they did not get that bike off Santa they just want them off the streets for as long as possable. They know "It's not where your from, It's who your from."
 

Jack Walsh

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Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
9,382
One or two super jails built to hold a thousand and double up the numbers if it gets to crowded make them suffer in prison breaking rocks and slopping out their own pi55 and sh1tę once a day. If you are still getting large numbers of lawbreakers who want to risk it than make the prison a lot more dangerous any random deaths or accidents involving the prison scum to be brushed under the carpet.

You need to make prison so unappealing to the law breaking scum that the thoughts of a life of crime has the, thinking they might not survive a stint in prison.

Utterly ignorant post that reveals every stupid failed concept of incarceration.
Prison systems that operate close to this sort of model are proven absolute failures, not just higher re offending levels, but far higher serious crime re offending
If you treat someone like an animal, they will behave like one

You forgot to of course bring in the roaring success of the death penalty and how its reintroduction has massively reduced murders and rapes in states that embraced it. Not

Hey, bring back borstals and corporal punishment too, they wee roaring success too.
Throw in a bit of buggering too, the criminal animals deserve a good shafting by the wardens and other inmates too, and we can all laugh at it.
Great craic eh Herr?

is there any BS right wing thuggery and bullying you don't actually advocate?
 

Herr Rommel

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Messages
8,908
Utterly ignorant post that reveals every stupid failed concept of incarceration.
Prison systems that operate close to this sort of model are proven absolute failures, not just higher re offending levels, but far higher serious crime re offending
If you treat someone like an animal, they will behave like one

You forgot to of course bring in the roaring success of the death penalty and how its reintroduction has massively reduced murders and rapes in states that embraced it. Not

Hey, bring back borstals and corporal punishment too, they wee roaring success too.
Throw in a bit of buggering too, the criminal animals deserve a good shafting by the wardens and other inmates too, and we can all laugh at it.
Great craic eh Herr?

is there any BS right wing thuggery and bullying you don't actually advocate?
Criminals are animals and should be treated as such
 

realistic1

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
11,402
Utterly ignorant post that reveals every stupid failed concept of incarceration.
Prison systems that operate close to this sort of model are proven absolute failures, not just higher re offending levels, but far higher serious crime re offending
If you treat someone like an animal, they will behave like one

You forgot to of course bring in the roaring success of the death penalty and how its reintroduction has massively reduced murders and rapes in states that embraced it. Not

Hey, bring back borstals and corporal punishment too, they wee roaring success too.
Throw in a bit of buggering too, the criminal animals deserve a good shafting by the wardens and other inmates too, and we can all laugh at it.
Great craic eh Herr?

is there any BS right wing thuggery and bullying you don't actually advocate?
I for one believe everyone deserved a chance of rehabilitation and forgiveness, but our current legal system is enabling violent and other criminal behavior. How do you square some of the examples of massive leniency shown towards recidivist crims on this thread?
 

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