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Why is the standard of Irish politician so...... Appalling????


kellboy

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
198
got the idea from someone posting "People might not think it now but Cowen will go down in history as possibly the best Taoiseach after De Velera and Lemass."

WTF

now i did laugh, but in retrospect we are renowned for electing muppets







Bertie got elected promising to keep people buying houses and telling others to commit suicide (some people still believe his horse/no bank story)

kenny got elected on "change" (helped that FF=toilet at time) and we all know how much has "changed" (maybe a swhing word borrowed from US campaign)

So if it's a fact that senior advisers have guided successive governments, does that in itself make our politicians even WORSE?? ie they see what's fecked up in opposition but eventually get advised into the status quo once holding office

Why/how do such low caliber individuals climb to the top of political parties?

reilly, lendahand(s), gormless, any ahern, harney, varadkar, clowen, kenny, mehole, anyone from clare, all the flynn family, noonan, even gilmore jumped on the cronytrain

The list is endless

throw in wallace, any healy rae, and lowry, and even the independents don't avoid the muppet box

and now with FF at 22% the next election looks even worse

can irish democracy be weighted so heavily against attracting intelligent candidates into it's political system?
 
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Ramps

The caliber of politician is not the problem. This idea that ALL politicians are bumbling idiots is just silly. The problem is that we live in a world in which the idea has developed that people need politicians to do things for them, to make things happen, as though politicians have some insight or wisdom that is lacking in the ordinary citizen. Look at the US now, for example.

If youre hoping for a time that will be characterised by the emergence of a great generation of politicians, you'll be sorely disappointed
 

kellboy

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
198
The caliber of politician is not the problem. This idea that ALL politicians are bumbling idiots is just silly. The problem is that we live in a world in which the idea has developed that people need politicians to do things for them, to make things happen, as though politicians have some insight or wisdom that is lacking in the ordinary citizen. Look at the US now, for example.

If youre hoping for a time that will be characterised by the emergence of a great generation of politicians, you'll be sorely disappointed
never suggested that.... we seem to have above the odds of bumbling idiots leading our ministries tho
 

sparkey321

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,385
I blame the press and the electorate and the party system.

I know a number of people with the skills, knowledge and experience that beleive would make them excellent politicans and people to lead the country.

None of them would dream fo politics, they dont want their and their families private lives invaded, they dont tell people what they want to hear they tell people what is actually happenening and what they need to hear, that makes them unelectable, Their backgrounds (the very reason that makes them qualified for the role) would make htem unelectable, the party system means that they would never get a chance to be elected and the people dont liek beign told the truth, they preffer empty promises of an easy way out and how its all someone elses fault.
 
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simeongrimes

Democracy is government by people who are good at winning elections. It's a peculiar skill and not necessarily related to ability to govern or legislate.

That's why I'm a strong supporter of term limits. I don't believe membership of the Dail should be a life-long career. Two terms and back to your real job.

But I would allow appointment to the cabinet from outside the Dail so a real talent could still be a minister even if they had done their two terms.
 
R

Ramps

Democracy is government by people who are good at winning elections. It's a peculiar skill and not necessarily related to ability to govern or legislate.

That's why I'm a strong supporter of term limits. I don't believe membership of the Dail should be a life-long career. Two terms and back to your real job.

But I would allow appointment to the cabinet from outside the Dail so a real talent could still be a minister even if they had done their two terms.
But what's the point of imposing term limits then?

How many seats in Cabinet would you leave for those who have not been elected? Out of 15, say
 
S

simeongrimes

The point would be to move on the people who have a talent for getting elected through constituency grunt work but don't have any real contribution to make nationally. I would not limit the number of outside ministers. I would even allow the election of a Taoiseach from outside the Dail.

100 TDs would be plenty too.
 
R

Ramps

The point would be to move on the people who have a talent for getting elected through constituency grunt work but don't have any real contribution to make nationally. I would not limit the number of outside ministers. I would even allow the election of a Taoiseach from outside the Dail.

100 TDs would be plenty too.
So you'd have no problem with having a govt. composed entirely of unelected men and women? OK.

How would govt. be held accountable? By the people sitting in parliament whom you don't even trust enough to let stand for election more than twice and who you feel are better suited to "local" politics rather than national.

Can you imagine what would happen? Within about 1 week you would have every group, party, and institution giving out yards about unelected executives, who know nothing about how the voters feel, doing what they like, accountable only to a bunch of inexperienced and incompetent backbenchers.
 

DaveMc

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
860
The common link to our 'missing link' type idiot politicians seems to be membership of the GAA mafia!
 

greengoose2

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
25,444
So you'd have no problem with having a govt. composed entirely of unelected men and women? OK.

How would govt. be held accountable? By the people sitting in parliament whom you don't even trust enough to let stand for election more than twice and who you feel are better suited to "local" politics rather than national.

Can you imagine what would happen? Within about 1 week you would have every group, party, and institution giving out yards about unelected executives, who know nothing about how the voters feel, doing what they like, accountable only to a bunch of inexperienced and incompetent backbenchers.
As matters stand we have a bloated Dail, none of it's members having any accountability, of dubious competence and simply not working!
 

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
Dresden8 & evoting machine have hit the nail right on the head!
 
R

Ramps

As matters stand we have a bloated Dail, none of iIt's members having any accountability, of dubious competence and simply not working!
Its certainly bloated. We don't need more than 50-60 TDs.

My point is that, over time, the quality of TDs is a reflection of voters' desires and attitudes.
 

mhagain

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,061
Because we keep on electing them. Because, given the choice between an intelligent capable person on one hand, or the local gobsh-te on the other, we have an unerring tendency to go for the latter.
 
S

simeongrimes

So you'd have no problem with having a govt. composed entirely of unelected men and women? OK.

How would govt. be held accountable? By the people sitting in parliament whom you don't even trust enough to let stand for election more than twice and who you feel are better suited to "local" politics rather than national.

Can you imagine what would happen? Within about 1 week you would have every group, party, and institution giving out yards about unelected executives, who know nothing about how the voters feel, doing what they like, accountable only to a bunch of inexperienced and incompetent backbenchers.
The Dail would elect the Taoiseach and approve the Ministers as usual. There would still be votes of confidence as usual. I'm not worried about inexperienced backbenchers. First time TDs with brains and a new perspective are better than cynical ward healers with 20 years experience of doing nothing worthwhile.
 
R

Ramps

The Dail would elect the Taoiseach and approve the Ministers as usual. There would still be votes of confidence as usual. I'm not worried about inexperienced backbenchers. First time TDs with brains and a new perspective are better than cynical ward healers with 20 years experience of doing nothing worthwhile.
How often are you planning on having elections? You'd be doing well to get a govt. approved once.

I can guarantee you the new TDs, without party affiliation between them and ministers, will be doing even less.
 

shiel

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
16,887
The op is elitist ************************.

Democracy is an awful system of government until you think of the alternatives.

The reason the country is bankrupt is that one group were left in power too long.

They became arrogant and thought they could walk on water.

Most of the members of the media grovelled to them in return for a place inside the tent and first call on the spin doctored press releases.
 

FrankSpeaks

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
4,625
It's the party system, to be in with a chance of getting on a ticket it takes nepotism or 20 years hard slog of ar$e licking. Then they go and pick the fellow who attends the most funerals not the fellow with the best brains.
 
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