Why Most Canadian Gays and Lesbians are Choosing NOT to Marry

Luigi Vampa

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From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.

Why most Canadian gays and lesbians are choosing not to marry

"...same-sex marriage is a radical act....it's an assimilationist strategy...For anti-assimilationists, same-sex marriage represents a reform movement that seeks to prove that queers are 'just like everyone else.' But many of us are not like everyone else - and unapologetically so.

...Many queers worry that the cultural adoption of same-sex marriage will lead to a domestication of queer culture.... But does our vibrant queer culture depend on marginality? Hopefully not. And, as Dan Savage has pointed out, marriage rarely meant monogamy for hets, so why would it make us sexually exclusive?

... queers have a distance from which to critique it [marriage], as well as freedom to create the relationships we want....owning property or having a pet is more of a commitment than a marriage...we have built cultures and communities independent of the straight world, developing and adopting our own creative alternatives: chosen families, open relationships, multi-parent families and domestic partnerships, just to name a few...

...Because we have all the same rights and responsibilities as common-law partners that we would have if we married, there is no need to marry," she says ... in Canada, common-law couples, gay or straight, are entitled to survivor benefits, post-breakup financial support, input into partner care, family and medical leave, adoption opportunities, immigration sponsorship and inheritance rights. ...

...Gay lawyer Ken Smith points to another disincentive to legalize vows. With marriage rights come obligations; you can't opt in or out at will....

...Many queers regard marriage as an oppressive patriarchal institution and have no interest in participating in it," findlay notes. "My partner and I, for example, decided that we would not marry unless there was an important political reason to do so. As my partner says, 'We've been living in sin for too long to change now!'"

...I believe that the more progressive political approach is for the individual to be the basis of social organization instead of the couple...A culture that values the individual instead of the couple as the base unit would offer more support for singlehood and single parenting, for starters...I'd like to see more information, resources and support for all forms of relationships: single, polyamorous, coupled, friendship, chosen family or whatever our queer hearts can dream up."
If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in May’09 :

The survey they [people against gay marriage] cite, a 1996 study by gay researchers Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen reportedly concludes that "the cheating ratio of ‘married’ gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%." The Maine Marriage Alliance does note that this "outside sexual activity" occurs by agreement, but really, so what? Joe. My. God.
I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. It’s a political tool, a trophy.
 


M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

It all depends on what your preference is. If you so choose to get married, well and good. If not, well and good. Canada has, as the report points out, better common-law legislation than Ireland has but at least those in Canada who do not wish to marry can choose to at some point, if they so wish.

Do you speak on behalf of the entire gay community btw? I've yet to meet anyone who does as even the gay community, again evidenced by the post, is divided on the issue.


Edit; I also not that you (selectively) left out many of the reasons why Canadian gay couples choose not to marry. Was that in effect to prove the point you attempt to make so vacuously?
 
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pujols

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Interesting but irrelevant.

The most important issue is the freedom to choose whether to marry or not. Many straight people choose not to marry for similar reasons but it does not take from the freedom to exercise the right.

This is a human rights issue and until it is seen in this context, the debate will always be skewed.
 

cropbeye

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Canada not to marry

I am glad that a few people still refuse to be bound by the for or against

type of argument so frequently imposed by the Irish press and even God forfend P.ie.

I am one of those that see marriage as oppressive hypocritical and un reformable.

As someoe in my mid thirties I would hope that by the time I am in my seventies I will have
lived to see a sharp decline in the number of people bothering with or being sucked in by marriage.

While I don't care really if Gay marriage is brought in or not I certainly will not advocate for it.

Of course I don't see myself as campagaining in a way to whack people over the head with the idea of Don't marry I still will hope that in subtle ways politic drift and reasonable sober means I will help to disuade some from marriage.If people of any orientation want to partake in rituas of two gold rings , promising to do this that and the other and allow a gang

of free loaders to eat and drink them out of hose and home then I can only feel sorry for them.
 

Mercurial

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From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.


If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in May’09 :



I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. It’s a political tool, a trophy.
You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Have you considered homosexuality?
 

ne0ica

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From Xtra! - Canada's Gay and Lesbian Webiste :

The article lists some of the reasons Canadian gays and lesbians are not getting married even though they tore the country limb from limb to get it legalised.

These discussions within the gay community rarely find their way into the mainstream press.


If being honest, most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex.

One of the most popular gay blogs "Joe my God" said this of Proposition 8, in May’09 :



I know this thread will not be popular in some sections of the Irish Gay community, but it's time for a lot more openness and honesty in this argument. Do they really want legally bound monogamy ? Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage. It’s a political tool, a trophy.
I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
Perhaps you, or the OP, might explain how it is a "political tool"?
 

Mercurial

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I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
Just look at these horrible fanatics:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYLHaRPM8I&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Matt and Sean (married October 15, 2008)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wlRfS24dpo&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Felicia and Liz (married October 4, 2008)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsdalWZgq4&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Barry Wally (daughter Lisa married September 6, 2008)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRFLHddVGR8&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - The Wedding Matters: Xavier and Michael (married October 18, 2008)[/ame]

Machiavelli himself would be impressed!
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

What's this? Luigi and neoica not prepared to back up their statements. Why ever not?

And one wonders why a judge overturned Prop8? :rolleyes:
 

Luigi Vampa

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Do you speak on behalf of the entire gay community btw?
No, no more than you do.

I also not that you (selectively) left out many of the reasons why Canadian gay couples choose not to marry. Was that in effect to prove the point you attempt to make so vacuously?
That side of the argument has already been heard many times, I like to hear other views.

You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Have you considered homosexuality?
Thanks. Ad hominem is especially non effective when your not insulting the other party.

I thinks it time the gay marriage fanatics were honest with themselves and everybody else and admmit that gay marriage is a political tool
Marriage is dead, and being Gay was never about monogamy, or desperately trying to be like the "breeders"
 

Odyessus

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It wasn't intended as an insult, it was intended to point out the ridiculous hyperbole in the OP.


It's called rhetoric. Like advertising, it is only convincing to unintelligent people.

There's a lot of them out there.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Matt can do better. But staying on topic: maybe it has to do with snoring.
 
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M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

No, no more than you do.
Ah but it wasn't me who stated;

"most gay advocacy groups would quietly admit that the gay marriage issue is only a political tool to normalise gay sex."

or

"Let's face it the Gay community were never into marriage."


That side of the argument has already been heard many times, I like to hear other views.
No, you prefer to select the views that, at first glance, appear to add veracity to your argument. You have yet to expand on that argument btw... In what way is it a political tool? ...and... what is not 'normal' about gay sex?
 

Jezza

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As someoe in my mid thirties I would hope that by the time I am in my seventies I will have
lived to see a sharp decline in the number of people bothering with or being sucked in by marriage.
Good luck to you. I hope for your sake that by the time you are 70 you are not a frail & feeble old person living in terror of the unsocialised, feral rat-child products of your contempt for stable familys.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Despite this there is a huge clamour for gay couples to have the same adoption rights as hetro couples.
I wonder is that true or is that just elite opinion? My gay friend Colm shares my belief that children are best raised by a mother and father (or at least a mother and father figure). It's not just a question of who is better at parenting: there are other issues to be considered such as the hell the child will suffer from homophobic classmates when they discover they have two fathers or two mothers. As a gay person myself I don't think these attitudes have just disappeared.
 

Mercurial

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I wonder is that true or is that just elite opinion? My gay friend Colm shares my belief that children are best raised by a mother and father (or at least a mother and father figure). It's not just a question of who is better at parenting: there are other issues to be considered such as the hell the child will suffer from homophobic classmates when they discover they have two fathers or two mothers. As a gay person myself I don't think these attitudes have just disappeared.
Oh yeah? Well I have two gay friends who share my belief that children of same-sex couples do as well as children of opposite sex couples.

Also, denying a couple the right to adopt a child because they might be bullied in school over it? Do you really want to take that principle to its logical conclusion? (Besides, at least half of these children would be rendered immune from Your Momma jokes, a staple of schoolyard bullying.)
 


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