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Why not establish an Irish civilian intelligence organisation?

davidcameron

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Jun 4, 2010
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8,761
If an external candidate instead of Nóirín O'Sullivan had been appointed as Garda Commissioner then the Commissioner might have been stripped of responsibility for national security because an officer in charge of our national security has to be an Irish citizen (though it might not have been a problem if a successful external candidate had relatively recent Irish ancestry).

A solution to this problem is to establish an civilian intelligence organisation (as opposed to military intelligence - G2). After all, the Canadian government established one after the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was hit by scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Security_Intelligence_Service

Even Singapore, which is a quite small state, has a secret service.
 


Prester Jim

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
9,946
If an external candidate instead of Nóirín O'Sullivan had been appointed as Garda Commissioner then the Commissioner might have been stripped of responsibility for national security because an officer in charge of our national security has to be an Irish citizen (though it might not have been a problem if a successful external candidate had relatively recent Irish ancestry).

A solution to this problem is to establish an civilian intelligence organisation (as opposed to military intelligence - G2). After all, the Canadian government established one after the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was hit by scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Security_Intelligence_Service

Even Singapore, which is a quite small state, has a secret service.
Great idea, we would put someone sound on all the important issues in charge but the selection process would have to be secret so it would probably end up being Enda Kenny's favourite next door neighbour; "kept all my secrets for years" being the justification.
I wold just prefer a properly selected AGS and a separate, also properly selected G2.
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
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32,514
One of the problems with the independent police authority is that state security must remain with the elected govt. Having the Gardai responsible for crime and answerable to a police authority and security answerable to the govt won't work.
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
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Who's job would it be to bug GSOC then
 

cyberianpan

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G2 are very competent...but often kept away from key operational areas

C3 are a mixed bunch, with different shortcomings

Both benefit from the natural camouflage of their larger parents...for that reason alone I'd be somewhat reluctant to agitate for a standalone intelligence service

That said, some statutory reform to better enable:
-international cooperation
-more collaboration with the DPP on "Al Capone" method takedowns
-enhanced protection for information sharing with the private sector
-enhanced regulation of sensitive private sector entities
-provision for plea bargaining and waiving of charges against moles
-etc

Would be useful

Cyp
 

drummed

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Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
36,191
I feel this is the perfect job for me.

Well, less a job as of course I don't plan to do any work. More the perfect post for me whereby I can keep an eye on all the nuts. Most of them are here anyway so I wont have to send my minions far I suppose.

Endless possibilities for organising right wing coups, bumping off lefties, interfering with the democratic process, subverting the rule of law. What's not to like?
 

drummed

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Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
36,191
G2 are very competent...but often kept away from key operational areas

C3 are a mixed bunch, with different shortcomings

Both benefit from the natural camouflage of their larger parents...for that reason alone I'd be somewhat reluctant to agitate for a standalone intelligence service

That said, some statutory reform to better enable:
-international cooperation
-more collaboration with the DPP on "Al Capone" method takedowns
-enhanced protection for information sharing with the private sector
-enhanced regulation of sensitive private sector entities
-provision for plea bargaining and waiving of charges against moles
-etc

Would be useful

Cyp
As long as I can sanction whackings i'm in.
 

Mad as Fish

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Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,185
If an external candidate instead of Nóirín O'Sullivan had been appointed as Garda Commissioner then the Commissioner might have been stripped of responsibility for national security because an officer in charge of our national security has to be an Irish citizen (though it might not have been a problem if a successful external candidate had relatively recent Irish ancestry).

A solution to this problem is to establish an civilian intelligence organisation (as opposed to military intelligence - G2). After all, the Canadian government established one after the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was hit by scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Security_Intelligence_Service

Even Singapore, which is a quite small state, has a secret service.
Have you ever read 1984? You might be thinking again about the idea if you did.
 

Mad as Fish

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Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
24,185
I feel this is the perfect job for me.

Well, less a job as of course I don't plan to do any work. More the perfect post for me whereby I can keep an eye on all the nuts. Most of them are here anyway so I wont have to send my minions far I suppose.

Endless possibilities for organising right wing coups, bumping off lefties, interfering with the democratic process, subverting the rule of law. What's not to like?
Fg beat you to it?
 

davidcameron

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Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
8,761
Have you ever read 1984? You might be thinking again about the idea if you did.
No but I know what it's about. Canada, Australia and Singapore established civilian intelligence organisations relatively recently, i.e. in the period since the start of the Cold War, but they're not dictatorships (before you mention Lee Kuan Yew, I think it's accurate to describe Singapore as a democracy at present).
 

publicrealm

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Aug 11, 2007
Messages
5,901
Great idea, we would put someone sound on all the important issues in charge but the selection process would have to be secret so it would probably end up being Enda Kenny's favourite next door neighbour; "kept all my secrets for years" being the justification.
I wold just prefer a properly selected AGS and a separate, also properly selected G2.
Is G2 not properly selected from within the Defence Forces? I'm not aware of any scandal or cause for concern here.
 

Prester Jim

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Jul 3, 2009
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9,946
Is G2 not properly selected from within the Defence Forces? I'm not aware of any scandal or cause for concern here.
Probably, I haven't heard anything too awful since all the Tom Clonan stuff brought changes, it is a relatively closed world though just like the AGS so I am distrustful of the selection processes for the officers. Is it on merit or on pull like the AGS from Garda to Inspector and political connection like the AGS from inspector up?
There is less actual power to influence day to day like in the armed forces as they don't stop drunken politicians or ignore politicians being at murder scenes or prevaricate until the statute of limitations expires on white collar crimes so maybe not.
 

Accidental sock

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Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
4,000
I already run such an organisation, as a hobby.

You!..on the leather sofa!....don't type and eat pot-noodle. Also, don't forget to put the bins out.
 


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