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Why should emigrants return?

hollandia

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In December 2015, An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, in his Christmas address called on emigrants to come home. Pretty standard fare you might say, up there with "we pray fervently for the reintegration of the National Territory" of days gone by - a sort of piety uttered without consequence, typical of the platitudes of career politicians.

Taoiseach's Christmas Message - MerrionStreet

However, I stumbled upon the following article in the IT, in which a recent emigrant is thoroughly offended by the notion, even suggesting that they were advised to leave by public servants in 2008.

When Ireland called emigrants

As someone, who along with quite a number of Piesters have in the past felt compelled to emigrate, either through choice or through sheer lack of opportunity at home, the timbre of the interviewee resonated quite sharply with me. I was quite lucky, in that my stints abroad were relatively short - a year here, two years there - and I was able to return fairly quickly once opportunities at home arose.

I sense however, the interviewee is symptomatic of the bulk of recent emigrés, in that the last financial collapse was so spectacular, and the drain of people out of the country so sharp, that they have absolutely no intention to return at any point, feeling as they do that their country abandoned them, when they needed it most. Not as most people would assume, that they abandoned the country.

I'm interested in the views of the denizens of P.ie, particularly those who have in the past left, and those who are still abroad. Should you return? And, yes or no, why?

For me, I saw shoots of change, a possible end to the two party hegemony that got us in the mess we are in. I'm not so confident now, however. And tbf, I can see us heading on a collision course with the next financial crisis, at full tilt. I'd like to know if other emigrés are of a similar mindset. Are we FUBAR'ed, irredeemable, totally screwed, or should we look forward with confidence?
 


GDPR

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This makes interesting reading

Population and Migration Estimates April 2015 - CSO - Central Statistics Office

The latest figures for net emigration/immigration.

Essentially you are seeing a transfer of population. A high percentage of young Irish people either in work or recently graduated, only 1 in 7 of whom was actually unemployed, are emigrating. Over 50% have third level education.

At the same time, a number equivalent to roughly 2/3 of those leaving is entering the country as immigrants. That partly accounts for why the overall population has increased not decreased.

Its not hard to see what is happening here. Its the modern way - the neo-Liberal way.
 

Truth.ie

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If returning expats had as many quangoes as the immigrants have, and has as many officials bending over to accomodate them as the immigrants have we might actually be able to defuse that alleged "ticking pension time-bomb"
Fact is any expat who returns from abroad are treated by officialdom as if they are newly arrived foreigners.
 

GabhaDubh

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If it was a quid pro quo obviously Ireland could be fine but, I am sure that further research would indicate it is a brain drain
 

popular1

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And not one pokitician in the dial thinks it strange that the country cant offer jobs to keep it own people yet can offer jobs to people from abroad which they take.
Now what ever the mechanics if it .....it is sad reflection on the people in power that they talk about recovery while this us going on.
 

hollandia

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This makes interesting reading

Population and Migration Estimates April 2015 - CSO - Central Statistics Office

The latest figures for net emigration/immigration.

Essentially you are seeing a transfer of population. A high percentage of young Irish people either in work or recently graduated, only 1 in 7 of whom was actually unemployed, are emigrating. Over 50% have third level education.

At the same time, a number equivalent to roughly 2/3 of those leaving is entering the country as immigrants. That partly accounts for why the overall population has increased not decreased.

Its not hard to see what is happening here. Its the modern way - the neo-Liberal way.
I take the point that there is a balancing effect through immigration. However that's not the thrust of the post. There is significant immigration in almost all western countries. The point of the question, I suppose is why should emigrants return? What would attract them back? (other than staging a coup d'etat, that is)
 

hollandia

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If returning expats had as many quangoes as the immigrants have, and has as many officials bending over to accomodate them as the immigrants have we might actually be able to defuse that alleged "ticking pension time-bomb"
Fact is any expat who returns from abroad are treated by officialdom as if they are newly arrived foreigners.
I certainly didn't find that to be the case, at all.
 

GDPR

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On the face of it, they shouldn't return but they want to (not all) and do return.
 

VHF

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Not on our lives are we returning. We've done it twice and on both occasions when we returned we regretted the decision.

Naivety was our downfall, wrongly believing things will change in Ireland.
They didn't and they will not.

We've a fairly broad circle off friends, some married with children, some married but thinking of starting a family. All of us have done the rotation back to Ireland thinking it will be better, sadly it was diabolical.

Now we collectively enjoy terrific careers with very comfortable lifestyles and none of the stresses that dogged us when we resided in Ireland being squeezed along with all the other middle class workers..

Na, ye can keep the Irish pipedream - it's empty.
 

Feckkit

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I really can't see that 'our poor émigrés' are anything to get worked up about.

In good times and in not so good times, the Irish, or a certain demographic of the Irish, go abroad.

In good times, you'll hear that Johnny had a great offer in Auscantria and that all his friends are going there too, just like the crowd the year before him, and twill be a great experience for him - entirely - and he'll get a massive boost from it and twill all be grand, grand, grand. No mention of government. Good man Johnny!

In not so good times, you'll hear that Mary couldn't get a job for love nor money and the poor thingeen had no option but to take the plane because there are great offers in Auscantria and all her friends are going there too, just like the crowd before her had to and shur twill be experience for her anyway - of a sort - but isn't it all terrible, terrible, terrible and the government is a hooring pile o shyte to send all our childer away. Sha Gaw help us tis tough - Poor Mary!

If people who went away want to come back then it's their decision either way - much like their decision to go was.

And yes, Enda Kenny is a plonker.
 

Polly Ticks

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Why should they return?

Nothing to do with politics or economics, but to take care of elderly family members.

I'll return for that reason alone (and I suspect many others will return for the same reason).. it certainly won't be an endorsement of whatever direction the ship of state is sailing in.
 

APettigrew92

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This makes interesting reading

Population and Migration Estimates April 2015 - CSO - Central Statistics Office

The latest figures for net emigration/immigration.

Essentially you are seeing a transfer of population. A high percentage of young Irish people either in work or recently graduated, only 1 in 7 of whom was actually unemployed, are emigrating. Over 50% have third level education.

At the same time, a number equivalent to roughly 2/3 of those leaving is entering the country as immigrants. That partly accounts for why the overall population has increased not decreased.

Its not hard to see what is happening here. Its the modern way - the neo-Liberal way.
As a twenty-something year-old who has seen several of his friends emigrate not necessarily due to lack of job opportunities but due to a lack of stability, potential advancement and unsustainable living costs, I would contend that it is almost direct Government policy to maintain such conditions.

The simple fact is that honest, hard-working migrants from corners of the world where working for minimum wage with little to no job security is commonplace are taking jobs and perpetuating, albeit unintentionally, a culture of lackadaisical work practices and a continued dismantling of core worker values.

The first thing bin companies did after privitization? Attempt to crush the Council workers union and reset wages to a minimum. They would sooner fork out hundreds of thousands in severance payments rather than have workers with "exorbitant" privileges in management's eyes.

The Government is deregulating industry to the point where someone my age would be fortunate indeed to find employment nowadays where fundamental worker's rights our parents enjoy/ed are present. I've worked four jobs over the last four summers - I stayed on in one position for a year or two - constantly on zero-hour contracts while my bosses handed us reports detailing their climbing profits.

Now the floodgates to Eastern Europe and South America have been opened - look at the spike in "Rest of World" from 2014 onward - and that bringds with it plenty of workers who are willing to work undocumented as well as having little loyalty to a Nation that really doesn't wish to take adequate care of them.

This is not a country for the Youth. They perfectly happy at Government level to continue pricing us out of the Housing Market. How many TDs own rented accommodation? How could a first-world society build 75 social houses in one year? Who benefits from a sinking of wealth into rented property and inflation that eats away between 35%-45% of an average worker's paypacket?

Most societies would be more concerned with getting their house in order before inviting in visitors. Ireland's emigrant population continues to skyrocket despite worker conditions on the whole worsening. It's not job theft if Irishmen and women don't or can't accept employment like that.

Baffling long-term thinking from a particularly small-minded Government.
 

GDPR

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I take the point that there is a balancing effect through immigration. However that's not the thrust of the post. There is significant immigration in almost all western countries. The point of the question, I suppose is why should emigrants return? What would attract them back? (other than staging a coup d'etat, that is)
No that wasnt my point. My point is that the emigrants were by and large already in employment or were recent graduates. Clearly they dont think the work they are doing or that they are able to secure will allow them to have a reasonable standard of living.

However they are being replaced by people who are presumably willing to work for less.

So it is a race to the bottom, unless you are part of the established dynasties or incapable/unwilling to work at all.
 

Texal Tom

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If returning expats had as many quangoes as the immigrants have, and has as many officials bending over to accomodate them as the immigrants have we might actually be able to defuse that alleged "ticking pension time-bomb"
Fact is any expat who returns from abroad are treated by officialdom as if they are newly arrived foreigners.
being in Ireland for 3 of the last 5 years is an essential criteria for receiving a 3rd level grant - many Irish families - instead of drawing social welfare during the collapse headed off and in real terms took much off the burden off the state. These people are now returning to find a system who is bending over backwards to accommodate failed asylum seekers and others who have either done very little work or none over the last 5 years - many foreigners. These are not only getting grants but are eligible for the access scheme = more state funding and reduced points entry to college

We also have the self employed / employers and drivers of the economy being shat on while our social welfare shovelled out billions to those who had a child in Ireland or did a cleaning job for a few years...

This fook of a country stinks and is anti Irish to the core

We have a so called president who is more concerned about immigrants and bringing in thousands more than the many thousands of firish families who were forced out of their homeland
 
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Texal Tom

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being in Ireland for 3 of the last 5 years is an essential criteria for receiving a 3rd level grant - many Irish families - instead of drawing social welfare during the collapse headed off and in real terms took much off the burden off the state. These people are now returning to find a system who is bending over backwards to accommodate failed asylum seekers and others who have either done very little work or none over the last 5 years - many foreigners. These are not only getting grants but are eligible for the access scheme = more state funding and reduced points entry to college

We also have the self employed / employers and drivers of the economy being shat on while our social welfare shovelled out billions to those who had a child in Ireland or did a cleaning job for a few years...

This fook of a country stinks and is anti Irish to the core
 

Paddy Sarkozy

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Fact is any expat who returns from abroad are treated by officialdom as if they are newly arrived foreigners.
Wrong.
Foreigners arrive with a blank sheet at the taxman.
For expats, revenue has full history on your tax payments, no matter how many years you were abroad. If you skipped the country owing, you'll be reminded of it.
 

Niall996

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Wouldn't dream of going back the way things are at present. Crippling taxation is the biggest issue for me all with excessive penalisation of ordinary people over petty regulations and the amount of lobby groups queuing up to tell everyone else how to live.
 

danger here

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Married to a local, no nanny state, better health system, less chance of getting glassed or attacked by a scumbag, lower cost of living, better weather and no faux american accents on the radio.

The only thing I truly miss from Ireland after almost ten years is takeaway food and the sense of wit. Both of those things are not musts though.
 

drummed

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Damn. I thought you meant the Muslims.
 


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