Why was our independence such a failure?



king5494

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The foundations of this state are crumbling as the pillars of our democracy are collapsing the politicians,church, law, merchant class and journalists from all the lies over the last 90 years . It was never a state to begin with, the landlord left a few lecherous clans in charge who've ruled ever since to suit themselves only occasionionally changing the faces to give the impression of the peoples will.

only when it collapses completely can we take away the waste(rs) and build it again with a more solid foundation for all the peoples in an equal and just state.
 

Riadach

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Yep :)

Prominent in the resource rape and cultural destruction of the Indian tribes
Maybe we were the Patty Hearst to Britain's SLA?
 

Spirit Of Newgrange

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80 years of economic depression did a good job in controlling our borders. Only after the mid 1990s did our policymakers begin to sell the irish nation down the multicultural road. A road which leads to social breakdown, crime and anarchy. There are some advantages to a nation being skint.
 

leftsoc

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A relative gain in standard of living that's pretty much unprecedented in Europe is not failure - this despite the lack of huge oil resources such as the UK had.
Ireland was I believe in the world top ten per capita in the 1920's, so was Argentina. Before the Tiger Years, we two countries had the most spectacualr fall in the ratings of any in the world.

Coincidentally (?) they were the both the last western countries to allow divorce and they had peculiar dominant sentimental, populist , criminal dominant parties (The Peronists and FF). So the Catolic Church and Fianna are the cause . But we always knew that anyway.
 

wombat

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Schomberg

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Where did you get that gem?
JJ Lee. Not sure what page. Ireland had the combined wealth per capita of Norway and Finland combined. 11th richest country in the world. The Economic War was more a war with our own coffers it seems.
 

wombat

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JJ Lee. Not sure what page. Ireland had the combined wealth per capita of Norway and Finland combined. 11th richest country in the world. .
I find that hard to believe. Maybe if you included the North you could bring it up the list but Ireland in the 20's had no industry, something like 25% were employed in farming and the moneyed classes looked to London.
 

Cruimh

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I find that hard to believe. Maybe if you included the North you could bring it up the list but Ireland in the 20's had no industry, something like 25% were employed in farming and the moneyed classes looked to London.
According to Lee Ireland was relatively industrialised compared to many other (Eastern) European countries - and Ireland's standard of living was average for Western Europe.
 

kerdasi amaq

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The premise of this question is wrong. It is Fianna Fail who have failed independence. Mainly because they always used it; for party political purposes.
 

Fritzbox

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OK -




80% emigration rate -how can you say the state wasn't a failure ?
Failure? That statistic (if it's true)reflects a runaway success compared to the the same 3 decades of the previous century.
 

Catalpast

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Emigration was tapering off as the 60s wore on

We then experienced a bizarre phenomenon

- emigrants returning to Ireland to live and work

The 1960s was our 1st 'Boom'

That's why in the pretty miserable 1980s

- it looked like 'The Best of Decades'

Our problem now - as is being covered here on the National Debt thread

- is that while today we have a moderate boom

- we cannot even afford a mild recession

We are skating on very thin ice folks

- and there are choppy waters ahead...:|
 

McTell

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No
Failure? That statistic (if it's true)reflects a runaway success compared to the the same 3 decades of the previous century.

We're always told to follow the money. Everyone said from 1910 onwards that a self-governing Ireland would need help. The 1914 Act allowed 6 years support from London. So, follow the money.

Go from 1914-style home rule to full independence, and you have to pay for an army, a navy, diplomatic corps etc.

Add to that, Collins signed the treaty accepting our share of the UK public debt, without even working out how much that was. Result - 6 counties border was unchanged in return for a write off of the debt.

Then the war of independence drove away many of the former landlords, who were flush with money after the land commission and 1903. Thick or what?

Just 1910-1925 tells you that the whole business was emotional and not practical.

Emigration and church control continued into the 1960s. I worked in a shop when a teen, where the biscuit packs came in box marked "For animal feed or republic of Ireland only". That was how prices were kept down.

So really what's left should be treasured - the survivors. The poor were badly ripped off by the whole set-up; the rest of us made corner cutting a national pastime.

Things like mass, the gah, speaking irish, going to the pub, were time fillers to take our minds away from what was really happening. But hey, that's all Irish culture, isn't it?
 


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