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Will FG make a referendum on the Seanad a "non negotiable"


Keith-M

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If as now looks certain, FG lead the next government but need the support of Labour to have a Dail majority, will they make the abolition of the Seanad a non-negotiable item in the programme for government? There is no question that the abolition of the Seanad would be a popular move and a major vote winner for FG, but unless they make it a priority, it could well be seen as kite-flying. Can we trust FG to fulfill their promises?
 

Bebsaboo

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Abolition of the Dail would be as popular. Kenny's latest stunt is pure populism and it doesn't actually help to reform the political system. It's straight out of the Eamon Gilmore book of politics.
 

culmore

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Will support any party who get rid of Senate and reduce number of useless TDs and more important reduce salaries and expenses of all politicians
 

Bebsaboo

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Don't you see that this is a smoke screen? It's big and it's flashy and it appeals to the anger felt by Sindo readers everywhere. It will also mean that under FG there will be no root and branch reform of the political system and without that reform we'll be doomed to repeat the same cycle of cronyism and parish pump politics.

This move will take the pressure off Enda to have to do what's best for the country even if it upsets the parliamentary party.
 

Rocky

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Labour have never said that they oppose Fine Gael on this and I think Pat Rabbitt expressly stated that he did and I think Gilmore basically implied that he did, so I wouldn't see it as being a problem in future coalition negotiations.
 

Limerick Lad

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Labour have never said that they oppose Fine Gael on this and I think Pat Rabbitt expressly stated that he did and I think Gilmore basically implied that he did, so I wouldn't see it as being a problem in future coalition negotiations.
Agree its unlikely to be a stumbling block in any future prospective coalition negotiations between Fine Gael and Labour, the only ones who would feel discommoded would be members of the Senate.
Unless the referendum to abolish the Senate was held within 90 days of the dissolution of this Dail, constitutionally there would probably have to be one last Senate elected.
 

Keith-M

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Agree its unlikely to be a stumbling block in any future prospective coalition negotiations between Fine Gael and Labour, the only ones who would feel discommoded would be members of the Senate.
Unless the referendum to abolish the Senate was held within 90 days of the dissolution of this Dail, constitutionally there would probably have to be one last Senate elected.

Yes, probably, but if the incoming government made it a priority, they would be in place for less than a year.
 

Rocky

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Yes, probably, but if the incoming government made it a priority, they would be in place for less than a year.
It's difficult to know how it will work. It might be a case that the next Seanad will have to sit it's full term and then there will be no elections after that.
 

Tomas Mor

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I hope they do as Its now or never to get rid of this useless expensive talking shop. I often watch just the opening business live on the net on the few days it sits. Its a howl, basically talking about what it says in the papers, or condemning the latest gangland killing. And usual pokes between Donie Cassidy, Buttimer, Ronan Mullen,Jim Walsh, Labhrás, Norris, Harris, etc. And sad thing is some of them regard themselves as possessing the wisdom of Soloman or the nous of Lincoln. Of course the people have the final say, but I dont think we'll be found wanting.
 

deiseguy

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Fine Gael need to make coalition a non negotiable with the electorate and simply state that they will not go into coalition with anyone after the next election. They must force the public to choose between a govt with a FF element be they senior or junior partners with Labour or one without a FF element by giving FG an overall majority or giving Labour enough seats to form a coalition with someone else. The country is in so much trouble at the moment that the last thing it needs is 2 ideologically opposed parties forming a coalition.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

I'm not persuaded about abolishing the Upper House. Though the arguments for are persuasive.

(off-topic) I would prefer a coalition of the Left.
 

LgCastell

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Cant see this as a deal breaker but i can see labour wanting major reform rather than absolute abolition... could the seanad be any use

for example - a full elected upper house with all uni reps and the remainder being voted in on the MEP eletion boundaries = Dublin,East, West & NW , South no taoiseach nominations either ...

this way the likelihood would be that the opposition in the Dail would be the majority in the Seanad (as election would fall at the mid term stage of Dail and goverments do badly in LE,MEP elecetions) ...this would reduce government supremacy - the down side would be a possible stagnation of the legislative process but could provide greater checks and balances that the Dail would have to listen to the seanad rather than sending it to them for fun and it being passed because the government always has a majority...

i saw a proposal that the seanad could interview government appointments to the central bank ,anglo , semi states etc and have to approve them - good idea i think

scrutinize EU law and its adoption - very good although quite specialised and complicated but if it could be done it'd be excellent

another role could be greater scrutiny of ministers and their legislation and if the majorities in both houses were of different parties it could be worth while

when Kenny announced abolition of seanad i was all for it but major reform could be more beneficial ..above are just some recommendations what to you think?
 

Rocky

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Cant see this as a deal breaker but i can see labour wanting major reform rather than absolute abolition... could the seanad be any use

for example - a full elected upper house with all uni reps and the remainder being voted in on the MEP eletion boundaries = Dublin,East, West & NW , South no taoiseach nominations either ...

this way the likelihood would be that the opposition in the Dail would be the majority in the Seanad (as election would fall at the mid term stage of Dail and goverments do badly in LE,MEP elecetions) ...this would reduce government supremacy - the down side would be a possible stagnation of the legislative process but could provide greater checks and balances that the Dail would have to listen to the seanad rather than sending it to them for fun and it being passed because the government always has a majority...
Stagnation would be the most likely outcome here though. Italy has had serious problems in this area in the past. I don't see why people have vote twice as well. Is their first decision not good enough?

i saw a proposal that the seanad could interview government appointments to the central bank ,anglo , semi states etc and have to approve them - good idea i think
Fine Gael proposes that a Dail Committee should do this and I think it's a good idea as well, but I think it's more suitable for a Dail Committee.

scrutinize EU law and its adoption - very good although quite specialised and complicated but if it could be done it'd be excellent
Nothing to stop the Dail doing this or the European Committee.

another role could be greater scrutiny of ministers and their legislation and if the majorities in both houses were of different parties it could be worth while
Very vague. It doesn't happen as of now though.
 

culmore

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Kenny has to change his mind on SF and go into government with them after next election. Bertie fooled him last time around, about not going into government with SF, Bertie didnt need them but Enda would to form a government, hince the we wont go into government with them
 

Rocky

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Kenny has to change his mind on SF and go into government with them after next election. Bertie fooled him last time around, about not going into government with SF, Bertie didnt need them but Enda would to form a government, hince the we wont go into government with them
It's very unlikely Fine Gael will need Sinn Fein. On every poll for years now Fine Gael and Labour would have had a comfortable majority.
 

cdsb21

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If as now looks certain, FG lead the next government but need the support of Labour to have a Dail majority, will they make the abolition of the Seanad a non-negotiable item in the programme for government? There is no question that the abolition of the Seanad would be a popular move and a major vote winner for FG, but unless they make it a priority, it could well be seen as kite-flying. Can we trust FG to fulfill their promises?
I'm not sure abolition of the Seanad is as popular as it is thought, i think people would rather see it being reformed dramatically with a new way of representation, rather than the power elite that we have now maybe it should be replaced by community reps, or representatives from disadvantage groups of society i.e travellers, migrants, people with disabilities etc... these representives would be directly elected by the standard pr vote from larger constituencies made up the proviences rather than the current dail constituencies
 

TradCat

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No version of the upper house would be given enough power to seriously annoy the government. Nor should it. So there is no point in reforming it. Just get rid of it.
 

vanla sighs

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If as now looks certain, FG lead the next government but need the support of Labour to have a Dail majority, will they make the abolition of the Seanad a non-negotiable item in the programme for government? There is no question that the abolition of the Seanad would be a popular move and a major vote winner for FG, but unless they make it a priority, it could well be seen as kite-flying. Can we trust FG to fulfill their promises?
No they won't make it a make or break issue - they care more about power than individual issues. Would it be a popular move? Yes, very popular. Can we trust FG to fulfill their promises? Lol, no, of course not. They are politicians, their number one aim is just like most other politicians, power - getting it, exploiting it and keeping it.

Having said that I want FF out, as do the vast majority of Irish people - I don't care whether FG lead the next government, just as long as FF are fecked out of it. I'd rather a Labout led government - could happen but unlikely.
 

Baron von Biffo

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If Kenny wasn't prepared to make having Bruton in Finance a deal breaker there's no way one of his gaffes will merit that status.

The senate is too important to all the parties as a nursery for new hopefuls and a safe haven for rejects for there to be any real enthusiasm for abolition.

Expect this to be buried in vague rhetoric somewhere in the PfG but when asked when they'll do anything about it we'll be told that the economy is the priority now and we can't afford to be distracted by a complicated referendum to remove something that's mentioned so often in the constitution.
 
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