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Will freedom of speech of anti Western muslim preachers be curbed in UK? Will there be pressure on muslims to integrate rapidly into UK society?

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
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13,693
Will freedom of speech of anti Western muslim preachers be curbed in UK? Will there be pressure on muslims to integrate rapidly into UK society?

A significant minority of muslims raised in England feel alienated from English society because of the UK's support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the difficulty they have in relating to the English mentality of individualism and Western liberal values. Their cultural traditions passed on from parents and grandparents cling to the importance of the tribe,the community, the extended family and traditional values, suppressing individualism.

This alienated minority provides a ready audience in English mosques for anti Western muslim preachers,most of whom are immigrants from Pakistan and India. They preach old fashioned, fundamentalist religion,often including political Islam. Such religious fundamentalism can be harmless if it stays out of politics and emphasises piety,although it could impede muslim integration into society.However, political Islam is viewed a threat to the UK's security.

Given the constant threats to UK security from muslim terrorists, the Cameron government is expected to respond by moving against preachers of political Islam. Possibly,it may also implement measures to pressure muslims to integrate more quickly into UK society.

The English tradition of freedom of speech would make it very difficult outside of wartime legally to suppress political Islam speech. While hate speech laws could be used to deny extensions of visas to preachers, those denials would likely give rise to endless legal appeals. As a practical measure,first time visas could be denied to foreign preachers abroad suspected of political Islam,decisions that could not be appealed.

As for integration measures, financial support for muslim schools introduced under the Blair government could be withdrawn,although that would have high political costs.

The UK government could also emulate the measures taken by the Netherlands to break up muslim ghettos by requiring muslim social welfare dependents to move to non muslim areas. In the north of England where the textile industry traditionally employed a high proportion of Pakistanis and Indians, muslim unemployment is very high.

An interesting question is whether continuing a laissez faire, highly tolerant or indifferent attitude to the pace of muslim integration would in the long run be more effective than robust government measures to force the pace which could backfire.
 


PeacefulViking

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Apr 20, 2012
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2,506
The UK has too much speech suppression as it is already. Besides, the hateful preaching mostly occurs in mosques where everyone is a conservative Muslim themselves. Are the UK going to institute a massive program of spying on preachers? They could of course, but should not, and it would lead to more resentment than be useful.

The subsidies to faith schools should stop, but it is not going to happen under the Tories.
 

Irish-Rationalist

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Apr 2, 2016
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With freedom comes responsibility, and Islamic jihadist hate preaching in British mosques is a simple abuse of the fundamental right to freedom of speech, and should be curbed using all means necessary. As regards integration, a foreign imported religion that preaches a rigid doctrine of religious supremacism, separatism and world domination has absolutely no aspirations to integration. Some Islamists feign Britishness in an attempt to conceal the true designs if Islam, whilst others openly sport placards proclaiming "Those who insult Islam shall be beheaded" and "Islam shall rule the world".

IMO, Islam should be deported, asap, and as as a fascistic politic-religious ideology and faulty goods. Taking the soft, liberal and foolish option of providing Islam with freedom of speech permits further recruitment and puts lives at risk. It's a poisonous ideology, and anyone who empathises with it provides succour for it.
 

Eire1976

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14,195
You can do whatever you want in the West and they know it.
 

Mercurial

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If the narrative being preached in these mosques is that the UK government is out to get Muslims, cracking down on the civil liberties of Muslims may serve only to provide further support to that narrative.
 

Polybius

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All of Europe needs to clamp down on money and preachers coming in from the Gulf States. We all know that there is a particular mosque in Ireland that is funded by the Muslim brotherhood and is importing radical Islam into Ireland.
 
Joined
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Apparently its ok to put up Islamic messages on posters on London buses but no Christian ones are allowed.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Deiscirt
A significant minority of muslims raised in England feel alienated from English society because of the UK's support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
British Muslims are for the most part estranged; not alienated.
 

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
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13,693
The UK has too much speech suppression as it is already. Besides, the hateful preaching mostly occurs in mosques where everyone is a conservative Muslim themselves. Are the UK going to institute a massive program of spying on preachers? They could of course, but should not, and it would lead to more resentment than be useful.

The subsidies to faith schools should stop, but it is not going to happen under the Tories.
MENACE

Racial and religious hate speech are a menace to society. In Rawanda, one of the national leaders, a woman, went on national radio to urge her tribe to massacre the other main tribe, contributing to the planned launch of mass violence. Historically, before mass media were invented, hate speech triggered frequent pogroms against Jews and minorities.
 
Last edited:

patslatt

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
With freedom comes responsibility, and Islamic jihadist hate preaching in British mosques is a simple abuse of the fundamental right to freedom of speech, and should be curbed using all means necessary. As regards integration, a foreign imported religion that preaches a rigid doctrine of religious supremacism, separatism and world domination has absolutely no aspirations to integration. Some Islamists feign Britishness in an attempt to conceal the true designs if Islam, whilst others openly sport placards proclaiming "Those who insult Islam shall be beheaded" and "Islam shall rule the world".

IMO, Islam should be deported, asap, and as as a fascistic politic-religious ideology and faulty goods. Taking the soft, liberal and foolish option of providing Islam with freedom of speech permits further recruitment and puts lives at risk. It's a poisonous ideology, and anyone who empathises with it provides succour for it.
ISLAM V POLITICAL ISLAM

Islam has proved tolerant in the past, a generation ago before the revival of fundamentalism. Thanks to political revolutions and wars, Islam naturally finds it difficult to remain tolerant,increasing the appeal of political Islam.

Many religions preach that they alone possess the truth and are intolerant. In Western liberal societies, they have learned to downplay or discourage intolerance.
 

mr_anderson

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Dec 12, 2007
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Islam is intolerant of anyone who is not part of their religion.
It's the cause of much conflict (social, political & violent) worldwide.

The rise of whabbism is the chief, if not sole, cause of this.

Shut down Saudi-sponsored mosques and the violence will subside ('tho not completely).

It's also an obvious strategy for Britain et al to stay the fúck out of the Middle East.
Different religion, culture and stage of development.
 

P.ieire

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Sep 22, 2015
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Speech isn't the problem, and when you have the combination of sacred victim hierarchy and incompatible cultures curbing speech will only fuel the victim complex. I also doubt there are many in politics who are intellectually incapable of comprehending this.
 

patslatt

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Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,693
All of Europe needs to clamp down on money and preachers coming in from the Gulf States. We all know that there is a particular mosque in Ireland that is funded by the Muslim brotherhood and is importing radical Islam into Ireland.
GARDA SURVEILLANCE

One thing the Gardai excel at is spying on potential and actual political extremists.
 

GabhaDubh

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As a practical measure,first time visas could be denied to foreign preachers abroad suspected of political Islam,decisions that could not be appealed.
The Trump Doctrine.
 

GabhaDubh

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Trump is an egomaniac who is ignorant of foreign policy apart from his knack of stirring up populist anger.
He is concurring with your premise, deny the potential problem admittance.

PS, the rant was way over the top, stay on the OP.
 

reg11

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Oct 23, 2011
Messages
3,215
A significant minority of muslims raised in England feel alienated from English society because of the UK's support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the difficulty they have in relating to the English mentality of individualism and Western liberal values. Their cultural traditions passed on from parents and grandparents cling to the importance of the tribe,the community, the extended family and traditional values, suppressing individualism.

This alienated minority provides a ready audience in English mosques for anti Western muslim preachers,most of whom are immigrants from Pakistan and India. They preach old fashioned, fundamentalist religion,often including political Islam. Such religious fundamentalism can be harmless if it stays out of politics and emphasises piety,although it could impede muslim integration into society.However, political Islam is viewed a threat to the UK's security.

Given the constant threats to UK security from muslim terrorists, the Cameron government is expected to respond by moving against preachers of political Islam. Possibly,it may also implement measures to pressure muslims to integrate more quickly into UK society.

The English tradition of freedom of speech would make it very difficult outside of wartime legally to suppress political Islam speech. While hate speech laws could be used to deny extensions of visas to preachers, those denials would likely give rise to endless legal appeals. As a practical measure,first time visas could be denied to foreign preachers abroad suspected of political Islam,decisions that could not be appealed.

As for integration measures, financial support for muslim schools introduced under the Blair government could be withdrawn,although that would have high political costs.

The UK government could also emulate the measures taken by the Netherlands to break up muslim ghettos by requiring muslim social welfare dependents to move to non muslim areas. In the north of England where the textile industry traditionally employed a high proportion of Pakistanis and Indians, muslim unemployment is very high.

An interesting question is whether continuing a laissez faire, highly tolerant or indifferent attitude to the pace of muslim integration would in the long run be more effective than robust government measures to force the pace which could backfire.
Rather than having to pressure somebody into accepting another's values, shouldn't those values be able to sell themselves? The fact that many of them aren't buying into them should be raising questions for the dominant culture as to why such is the case.

Is it not true to say that the values such as individualism aren't really delivering as much as was once believed either at the individual or societal level? The values you seem to denounce or hold of little value that Muslim communities hold dear were the same values from which most of us emerged. Because of that, might it not be logical that the dominant community's culture because of it obvious and visible lack of belief in itself in a way revert back to a type of culture it once was, different in that it would be more enlightened than that of the past?
 

cunnyfunt

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Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
6,640
A significant minority of muslims raised in England feel alienated from English society because of the UK's support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the difficulty they have in relating to the English mentality of individualism and Western liberal values. Their cultural traditions passed on from parents and grandparents cling to the importance of the tribe,the community, the extended family and traditional values, suppressing individualism.

This alienated minority provides a ready audience in English mosques for anti Western muslim preachers,most of whom are immigrants from Pakistan and India. They preach old fashioned, fundamentalist religion,often including political Islam. Such religious fundamentalism can be harmless if it stays out of politics and emphasises piety,although it could impede muslim integration into society.However, political Islam is viewed a threat to the UK's security.

Given the constant threats to UK security from muslim terrorists, the Cameron government is expected to respond by moving against preachers of political Islam. Possibly,it may also implement measures to pressure muslims to integrate more quickly into UK society.

The English tradition of freedom of speech would make it very difficult outside of wartime legally to suppress political Islam speech. While hate speech laws could be used to deny extensions of visas to preachers, those denials would likely give rise to endless legal appeals. As a practical measure,first time visas could be denied to foreign preachers abroad suspected of political Islam,decisions that could not be appealed.

As for integration measures, financial support for muslim schools introduced under the Blair government could be withdrawn,although that would have high political costs.

The UK government could also emulate the measures taken by the Netherlands to break up muslim ghettos by requiring muslim social welfare dependents to move to non muslim areas. In the north of England where the textile industry traditionally employed a high proportion of Pakistanis and Indians, muslim unemployment is very high.

An interesting question is whether continuing a laissez faire, highly tolerant or indifferent attitude to the pace of muslim integration would in the long run be more effective than robust government measures to force the pace which could backfire.
The notion you have freedom of speech when its criticism of islam is a farce. How many media sources showed the images that CH were executed over? All the furor over mohammed..........the media wont even discuss his life (because of the violent intolerant nature of it)......schools white wash all the negative sh1t out of the pages of history when teaching western children about mo too.
 

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