• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Will Sinn Féin be conservative in government?


FloatingVoterTralee

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
997
It seems probable that SF will be a junior coalition partner within the next two elections if they maintain their present poll rating, so analogies with previous republican parties should help gauge their potential attitude. After the radicalism of Original Sinn Féin's programme in 1918 and the revolutionary period, the subsequent Cumann na Gaedhael administration proved decidely conservative, focusing on fiscal prudence and law and order, rather than social and cultural change. Similarly, the accession of FF was widely feared by many in the professional classes on the basis that the party was viiewed as decidely unpredictable, yet within the next decade, its protectionist economic policies and isolationist cultural nationalism saw the Soldiers of Destiny position themselves firmly to the centre-right. Even when Clann na Poblachta clung most faithfully to its pre-election republican socialism, the subsequent clash between Browne and McBride saw this USP severely diluted and the party inexorably dwindle into irrelevance. Finally, SF's record in Stormont has shown its own readiness to engage in austerity politics when required by political necessity, so rather than the "real party of the left", it seems highly likely that SF in government will swiftly reveal itself to be merely "FF Nua".
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
This is pretty much a mess.

SF have been useful from a polling pov for the last 3 elections. Polling numbers have nothing to do with it, there's no sign that any major political party is willing to do business with SF, or SF with them.


People trying to directly tie their actions between NI and the republic are just being lazy. They're separate parties with different leaders, different members and very different electoral challenges. Their catchment is much wider in the North, they're working in a different economy and a different political model. SF's politics in the Republic and that of their supporters are firmly ensconced on the left.

Trying to tie what people thought 100 years ago into current voting patterns is ridiculous.

Apart from that, great work...
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,124
I don't see the correlation between SF's programme of 1918 and the ' subsequent Cumann na Gaedhael' (sic) administration.
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,124
This is pretty much a mess.

SF have been useful from a polling pov for the last 3 elections. Polling numbers have nothing to do with it, there's no sign that any major political party is willing to do business with SF, or SF with them.


People trying to directly tie their actions between NI and the republic are just being lazy. They're separate parties with different leaders, different members and very different electoral challenges. Their catchment is much wider in the North, they're working in a different economy and a different political model. SF's politics in the Republic and that of their supporters are firmly ensconced on the left.

Trying to tie what people thought 100 years ago into current voting patterns is ridiculous.

Apart from that, great work...
Sweet jeebus. I think for the first time in 9 years I agree with something Sync wrote!:oops:
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,124
Will Sinn Fein be conservative in government? They already are...

Sam Smyth: SF's policy is hypocrisy -- on both sides of Border - Independent.ie
Another sucker believing the newspapers blindly. If circumstances were identical in NI and the Republic then Smyth would have a point. They aren't so he doesn't. In fact, if SF acted the same way in NI as they do in the Republic, then there'd be something wrong. Alas, the shyt rag that is the Indo exploits the unthinking nature of its readers.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
It seems probable that SF will be a junior coalition partner within the next two elections if they maintain their present poll rating, so analogies with previous republican parties should help gauge their potential attitude. After the radicalism of Original Sinn Féin's programme in 1918 and the revolutionary period, the subsequent Cumann na Gaedhael administration proved decidely conservative, focusing on fiscal prudence and law and order, rather than social and cultural change. Similarly, the accession of FF was widely feared by many in the professional classes on the basis that the party was viiewed as decidely unpredictable, yet within the next decade, its protectionist economic policies and isolationist cultural nationalism saw the Soldiers of Destiny position themselves firmly to the centre-right. Even when Clann na Poblachta clung most faithfully to its pre-election republican socialism, the subsequent clash between Browne and McBride saw this USP severely diluted and the party inexorably dwindle into irrelevance. Finally, SF's record in Stormont has shown its own readiness to engage in austerity politics when required by political necessity, so rather than the "real party of the left", it seems highly likely that SF in government will swiftly reveal itself to be merely "FF Nua".
Conservative does not come close to what SF would be like in government.

I remember years ago the kneecappings and see the victims of tarring and feathering, let alone other.

SF in government would be very nice and cuddly until they got more than 50% of the vote, then the iron fist would crush everything.

The present bunch are bad enough. We do not need worse.

We need a real credible alternative.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
This is pretty much a mess.

SF have been useful from a polling pov for the last 3 elections. Polling numbers have nothing to do with it, there's no sign that any major political party is willing to do business with SF, or SF with them.


People trying to directly tie their actions between NI and the republic are just being lazy. They're separate parties with different leaders, different members and very different electoral challenges. Their catchment is much wider in the North, they're working in a different economy and a different political model. SF's politics in the Republic and that of their supporters are firmly ensconced on the left.

Trying to tie what people thought 100 years ago into current voting patterns is ridiculous.

Apart from that, great work...
Wrong.

You clearly know nothing about SF.

SF is the exact same party on both sides of the border under the one leadership.

Policy's on both sides are different to take advantage of oppertunities to advance there share of the vote, but that is it.
 

Dub01

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
5,267

corelli

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
4,478
There has yet to be a party in Irish political history that, whilst canvassing on a leftist programme in opposition, did not move to the right in Government, at least fiscally. The further left, the further right. Pragmatism dictates.

"It's the economy, stupid."

Does anyone honestly believe that if SF gained office in the morning that any of their more marxist economic ideas would see the light of day?
 

tigerben

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,621
Unless the civil servants are changed en masse when governments are changed, it doesnt matter what policies any party have.
 

tokkie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
18,895
Unless the civil servants are changed en masse when governments are changed, it doesnt matter what policies any party have.
Bullcrap. Elected governments decide policy and the Civil Service implement those policies.
 

tokkie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
18,895
We have seen nothing of the sort.!
Really? So you are telling us all that the policies being implemented by the current government were formulated by the Civil Service and that it has always been this way, since the foundation of the State? Is that what you are claiming?
 

borntorum

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
12,805
There has yet to be a party in Irish political history that, whilst canvassing on a leftist programme in opposition, did not move to the right in Government, at least fiscally. The further left, the further right. Pragmatism dictates.

"It's the economy, stupid."

Does anyone honestly believe that if SF gained office in the morning that any of their more marxist economic ideas would see the light of day?
I don't think they're even vaguely Marxist anymore. They're just another populist leftie "whatever you're having yourself" party. They'll settle into government much more easily than old Labour, they're disciplined like the Stickies - power at all costs
 

stakerwallace

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,434
I don't see the correlation between SF's programme of 1918 and the ' subsequent Cumann na Gaedhael' (sic) administration.
Deanglosising the education system was a point of continuty but of course also failure.
 

tigerben

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,621
Really? So you are telling us all that the policies being implemented by the current government were formulated by the Civil Service and that it has always been this way, since the foundation of the State? Is that what you are claiming?

The last couple of decades the civil servants are the unelected power, they stay , ministers are a figure head on departments. A name change on the door doesn't change policies. This is why there are no difference anymore to who ever is in government!
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
I think they'd have to be. For a start if you're a coalition partner, especially a junior one, then by definition you can't do everything you want to do and have to compromise.

To be honest even if they got elected entirely on their own I think they'd be less radical then they say. It's not dishonesty as such - just reality. When you get power you realise that actually being in charge is very different to being in opposition and that there's other things you have to consider - international bodies, the EU, pressure groups etc.

That's not a slur on SF - it's the reality for any party which finally gets into government for the first time. Look at Sinn Fein in NI - they are limited by coalition and by the powers of the NI Assembly, but they are still prepared to be in government there and accept the compromises that entails - and that seems more helpful than to refuse to participate to be honest.

Look at the Liberal Democrats in the UK - first taste of real power and a lot of their more radical positions simply had to be dropped... they'd gone from being a party of eternal opposition to actually having some responsibility.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
14,214
There has yet to be a party in Irish political history that, whilst canvassing on a leftist programme in opposition, did not move to the right in Government, at least fiscally. The further left, the further right. Pragmatism dictates.

"It's the economy, stupid."

Does anyone honestly believe that if SF gained office in the morning that any of their more marxist economic ideas would see the light of day?
Sinn Fein would probably be right wing of Milton Friedmann in power.

Just look at the pictures of SF representatives when they visit New York and Washington DC. Directors from all the major vulture banks are fawning all over them. They do not want to be seen with anyone who is not neo-liberal in the extreme. Those same bankers do not want to be seen with anyone who even accepts that social medicine or welfare be allowed to exist.

Under Sinn Fein I would expect fiscal policy to be dictated by the psychopathic writings of Ayn Rand and any hint of compassion to come out of the Milton Friedmann rulebook (As in Chile and Bolivia).
 
Top