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Will Sinn Fein tear itself apart over the Repeal the 8th Campaign - Civil War looms?


Catalpast

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Nov 17, 2012
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26,196
Looks like the knives are out inside the ranks of SF's parliamentary Party as colleagues turn on West Meath TD Peadar Tóibín

The bold Eoin Ó Broin TD has let it be known that he does not agree with Tóibín's opposition to Abortion

Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin has attacked his party colleague Peadar Tóibín for his suggestion that the Oireachtas Committee examining the Eighth Amendment was biased.
Speaking on RTÉ's The Week in Politics programme, Mr Tóibín criticised the balance of both members and witnesses giving testimony and he said he was disappointed.
...

The abortion issue will be discussed at the party's Ard Fheis next weekend when it is expected members will agree to support allowing abortions in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities, rape, incest and where the mother's health is at risk.
It will not however allow a free vote on the issue in contrast with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/1112/919483-sinn-fein-abortion/

In other words Abortion on Demand.

Why are they so afraid of their own members that they wont allow them a free vote?

I think a lot of rural voters will be very disillusioned with anyone who fails to conform being turned on like this.
 

Mitsui2

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Nov 13, 2009
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33,382
I think a lot of rural voters will be very disillusioned with anyone who fails to conform being turned on like this.
Believe it or not, Catalpast, concern about women's health during pregnancy is an issue in rural areas too.
 

Wascurito

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Apr 18, 2017
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Printer cartridges at dawn.....
 

midlander12

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Jul 29, 2008
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Adams has come out in favour of abortion on demand which is a considerable revision of his previous position.

Toibin is not just anti-abortion - he holds the extreme Catholic position on the subject and even opposed the legislation legalising it where the mother's life is in danger. This would be very much a minority position even in the most rural areas.

If anything, I would think abortion is more a problem for SF in the North than in the Republic - I imagine most SF members and supporters in the Republic would be in favour of liberalisation.
 

loner

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Jan 9, 2005
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Think the bullying issue will do the Shinners most damage--young enthusiastic people who have joined realise that the organization is not democratic--it is being run by the IRA who failed to bomb the country into a united Ireland and are now trying to subvert this state by political means---we shall not we shall not be moved by this ploy
 

Half Nelson

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Believe it or not, Catalpast, concern about women's health during pregnancy is an issue in rural areas too.
As is a reluctance to kill children - even the unwanted or disabled ones.
 

Jim Car

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Believe it or not, Catalpast, concern about women's health during pregnancy is an issue in rural areas too.
Its a concern for everyone, suggesting otherwise is a pathetic attempt to demonise those that don't line up exactly the way you want them to.
 

Jim Car

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Not really surprising that a left wing party and leadership takes issues with members disagreeing.
 

razorblade

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I presume as in all political parties there is a divided issue on this matter.
 

Deadlock

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Its a concern for everyone, suggesting otherwise is a pathetic attempt to demonise those that don't line up exactly the way you want them to.
Of course, in the interest of that same sense of balance, you'll direct the same comment at the OP?
 

JimmyFoley

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Sep 28, 2016
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9,647
Adams has come out in favour of abortion on demand which is a considerable revision of his previous position.

Toibin is not just anti-abortion - he holds the extreme Catholic position on the subject and even opposed the legislation legalising it where the mother's life is in danger. This would be very much a minority position even in the most rural areas.

If anything, I would think abortion is more a problem for SF in the North than in the Republic - I imagine most SF members and supporters in the Republic would be in favour of liberalisation.
Adams's opinion doesn't matter: the grassroots will decide what SF's stance will be, at the AF next week.
 

TheWolf

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Jan 14, 2017
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I reckon Peadar will be heading to join the FFail/RCC party....
 

Cruimh

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Apr 30, 2010
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post 1367 on the SF Bullying thread

This could be interesting:

Tóibín calls for Sinn Féin conscience vote on abortion - BBC News

A Sinn Féin TD (member of the Irish parliament) who lost the whip over his stance on abortion has called on the party to allow elected members to vote with their conscience.


Peadar Tóibín said it is vital they have that right, given the diversity of opinion within the party on abortion.


A motion on a "conscience vote" is due to debated at Sinn Féin's annual conference next weekend in Dublin.


Mr Tóibín said the party faces a "bumpy road" in dealing with the issue.

This could test party discipline.

Gerry himself seems at odds with party Policy

NI Paper Review: Adams reveals abortion views - BBC News


This isn't as clear cut as some would like to pretend in NI - where as many Nationalist voters are unhappy with abortion as Unionists. And I suspect there is the same kind of split in the ROI under the surface between the liberal wing and the reactionaries who oppose abortion and gay marriage on principle.

A free vote for their TDs would be politically sensible - but SF are an authoritarian party (see the Bullying thread) and dissent is not easily tolerated.
 

Mercurial

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Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
88,215
Looks like the knives are out inside the ranks of SF's parliamentary Party as colleagues turn on West Meath TD Peadar Tóibín

The bold Eoin Ó Broin TD has let it be known that he does not agree with Tóibín's opposition to Abortion

Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin has attacked his party colleague Peadar Tóibín for his suggestion that the Oireachtas Committee examining the Eighth Amendment was biased.
Speaking on RTÉ's The Week in Politics programme, Mr Tóibín criticised the balance of both members and witnesses giving testimony and he said he was disappointed.
...

The abortion issue will be discussed at the party's Ard Fheis next weekend when it is expected members will agree to support allowing abortions in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities, rape, incest and where the mother's health is at risk.
It will not however allow a free vote on the issue in contrast with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/1112/919483-sinn-fein-abortion/

In other words Abortion on Demand.

Why are they so afraid of their own members that they wont allow them a free vote?

I think a lot of rural voters will be very disillusioned with anyone who fails to conform being turned on like this.
Most parties don't allow free votes on almost all issues, except those where they're too cowardly to take an official stance on something - usually a social issue of some sort.

The divisions in SF over this issue are far less obvious than those in FG or FF.
 

edwin

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Feb 5, 2009
Messages
6,139
Its a concern for everyone, suggesting otherwise is a pathetic attempt to demonise those that don't line up exactly the way you want them to.
That's kind of Mitsui2's stock in trade - puerile and transparent as well as pathetic
 

Nedz Newt

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Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
3,451
SF has inched it's way back to the same position (pro-choice) that it held in the mid-1980s. It ran away from that position then in the wake of the 1984 euro elections when the SDLP successfully played the "baby-killers" card, but they no longer feel electorally vulnerable on that score.
Tóibín may be headed FF-wards though. I'm sure Meath FF won't have a problem with that...:)
 

Half Nelson

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Dec 12, 2009
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21,718
I presume as in all political parties there is a divided issue on this matter.
Yes, but SF, like FG, has a proven record of denying members their freedom of conscience.
 

Texal Tom

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Feb 24, 2011
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It’s clear that Tobin has a moral conscience - surprised that he is with a party whose origins were so bloody
 

edwin

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Most parties don't allow free votes on almost all issues, except those where they're too cowardly to take an official stance on something - usually a social issue of some sort.

The divisions in SF over this issue are far less obvious than those in FG or FF.
Did you see the FF Ard Fheis vote? Estimated to be 5 or 6 to 1 in favour of retaining the eighth, not exactly a big division.
 
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