Will the budget be passed?

Clanrickard

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JHR and Lowry potentially voting against. Stephen Collins on RTE suggesting some back benchers might vote against to save their skin. Everybody says it needs to pass but yet there are many people who will vote against . Personally I think it will pass but think it could be put off by 3 weeks or so until after a GE.
 


borntorum

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FG and/or Lab need to step up to the plate now. They're going to be the ones inheriting the mess so they'd be cutting off their noses to spite their face if they go for the populist option and vote against
 

Skyrocket

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Agreed. This is a defining moment for Labour in particular.
 

sport02

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How can labour support the budget, when they favour a four billion adjustment ad not a six bilion adjustment.
Makes no sense.
 

Social Conscience

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Good afternoon to you Joe is just on with a nobody FF Kildare TD - it looks like the rats are jumping ship in looking to get rid of Brian Clown sooner rather than later.
 

corelli

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FG and/or Lab need to step up to the plate now. They're going to be the ones inheriting the mess so they'd be cutting off their noses to spite their face if they go for the populist option and vote against
They can simply abstain. Leave it to the gob************************e FF backbenchers to be populist, and look like it.
 

corelli

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How can Fianna Fail be allowed to deliver a budget that they will never implement?

A general election before the budget is the only fare way.
It matters now what Labour think now. The IMF/EU say 6 billion is the target, and that is it. End of story. Labour and whoever, can posture all they want. Our targets are NOT set here anymore. Get used to it.
 

adrem

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Snap election in early/mid December. New Govt to introduce 6bn of cuts in budget 1 week later.

May seem mad. . . . but there is no upside to FF waiting for the Greens to bring down the Govt in January. The JHR/ML positioning has already started and the backbenchers are lining up to oppose the Govt. LAB and FG are not agreeing to pass the budget from the opposition benches. Cowen is not going to last post election in any event.

So . . . . dissolution immediately, Cowen calls snap election and resigns as head of FF. Lenihan or Martin take over with a plan for the long term rebuilding of the party etc

FG/LAB bring in the budget with their new mandate. The terms of the budget (6bn cuts) already set in stone by the IMF.

All done before Christmas.
 

Superlepreachaun

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FG and/or Lab need to step up to the plate now. They're going to be the ones inheriting the mess so they'd be cutting off their noses to spite their face if they go for the populist option and vote against
So FG and Labour would make the same cuts as FF?

  • If they would not make the same cuts, in the same places, then they should vote no.
  • If they would, then they should not bother contesting the general election, and just endorse the FF candidate in every constituency.

If its the same policies but diffrent faces then the idea of a general election is a farce, its just a glorified game of musical chairs, it already is to an extent, as they all admit to being slaves of the bond markets (the ones we gave 0% intrest loans to when they came begging for our help and are now selling money back to us at high intrest) and banks...so this would make that even more clear.

Why the hell bother with an election if the oppositions going to support the budget? If were gonna have the same policies is it not better to avoid the caos of a general election and have the same hands in charge?
 

atlantic

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Its rats sinking ships .The Greenies will vote against they are know whats going on are into saving their own skins.Some of the militant b/b in ff will do likewise.
Its all a set up.
 

myksav

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JHR and Lowry potentially voting against. Stephen Collins on RTE suggesting some back benchers might vote against to save their skin. Everybody says it needs to pass but yet there are many people who will vote against . Personally I think it will pass but think it could be put off by 3 weeks or so until after a GE.
Yes. The Budget will pass regardless of the Green's or Healy-Rae or Lowry or Ind's. Fine Gael and Labour will either vote in favour or abstain from voting, allowing a minority vote to pass the Budget.

Neither FG or Lab want a General Election before a budget, that's not politically beneficial for those Parties. They want to cause as much damage to FF as possible regardless of whether that also damages the country.
 

myksav

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smitchy2

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So FG and Labour would make the same cuts as FF?

  • If they would not make the same cuts, in the same places, then they should vote no.
  • If they would, then they should not bother contesting the general election, and just endorse the FF candidate in every constituency.

If its the same policies but diffrent faces then the idea of a general election is a farce, its just a glorified game of musical chairs, it already is to an extent, as they all admit to being slaves of the bond markets (the ones we gave 0% intrest loans to when they came begging for our help and are now selling money back to us at high intrest) and banks...so this would make that even more clear.

Why the hell bother with an election if the oppositions going to support the budget? If were gonna have the same policies is it not better to avoid the caos of a general election and have the same hands in charge?

Don’t be such a fool to fall into the FF “they’re all the same”.
The opposition could not of been as corrupt as the current crowd.

The government has to agree on the €6bn deficit cut. There are many ways this can be done.
FF has shown a complete inability to reform the public sector and has in fact bloated the spending on it without any real results.

At least FG or Labour will provide for a fresh approach which is sorely lacking at present.
 

CorkHurler

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May 12, 2004
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Lowry has said he wont vote for the buget (he has passed the responsibility to Lab and FG to ensure "stability", Jackie says it highly unlikely that he will vote for the budget but I leave him as an undecided in the calculation:

The govt can count on 79 votes:
Fianna Fáil 70
FF without whip (Devins and Scanlon), 2
Mary Harney 1
Green 6
79

The opposition have
FG 51
Lab 20
Shinners (incl by election) 5
Independents (Finian, Maureen O Sullivan, 5
Joe Behan, Lowry, Grealish) ___
81

Undecided 2 (Mattie McGrath, Jackie Healy Rea,

Vacancies 3 + CC

Unless someone in FG abstains we're looking at the budget being passed with casting vote of CC.
 

QuizMaster

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Snap election in early/mid December. New Govt to introduce 6bn of cuts in budget 1 week later.

May seem mad. . . . but there is no upside to FF waiting for the Greens to bring down the Govt in January. The JHR/ML positioning has already started and the backbenchers are lining up to oppose the Govt. LAB and FG are not agreeing to pass the budget from the opposition benches. Cowen is not going to last post election in any event.

So . . . . dissolution immediately, Cowen calls snap election and resigns as head of FF. Lenihan or Martin take over with a plan for the long term rebuilding of the party etc

FG/LAB bring in the budget with their new mandate. The terms of the budget (6bn cuts) already set in stone by the IMF.

All done before Christmas.
Crazy stuff, but the more I think about it, the less I can think of any other option.

If it looks too risky to try a budget vote, then an immediate election becomes the only safe option.

How is Paddy Power reacting? Election year? I can't see it from in here.
 

myksav

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I would really like to fuking log out of this site but keep getting a fuking page cannot be displayed.
 

Superlepreachaun

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Don’t be such a fool to fall into the FF “they’re all the same”.
The opposition could not of been as corrupt as the current crowd.

The government has to agree on the €6bn deficit cut. There are many ways this can be done.
FF has shown a complete inability to reform the public sector and has in fact bloated the spending on it without any real results.
I'm really getting sick of this "its the public sector" ************************e.

It's like being hit by a car, your legs crushed, and the paramedics rushing to concentrate on the gash on your head instead of your crushed legs.
Get some perspective. The public sector in Ireland, esp the HSE, may be full of staff duplication and its higher levels full of bloated salerys but thats not the core problem here, the financial sector caused this disaster, and instead of reforming it were prostrating ourselves before it and saying "how may we please you master, please lend us our own money back at high intrest", were bailing some of these bondholders out on the one hand then asking them for that same money back to keep the lights on! This is ************************************g perverse, and all throughout it were talking about how Mary in the HSE office is in a job that doen's tneed to exist, we cant see the forest from the trees.

I'm also really worried at how obsessed everyone is with the defect while theres no talk about a road to actual recovery to generate new revenue, all I'm hearing are cuts plans, no recovery plans.

If the opposition have the same plans and vote for the same budget they ARE the same!
 

ocoonassa

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thats not the core problem here, the financial sector caused this disaster, and instead of reforming it were prostrating ourselves before it and saying "how may we please you master, please lend us our own money back at high intrest", were bailing some of these bondholders out on the one hand then asking them for that same money back to keep the lights on!
Exactly. And the reason the bailout went ahead was because the political class wished to assist the oligarchs who fund them in making the largest ever transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. No other reason. Our political class are kleptocrats who have nothing but contempt for the common people.

Amazingly though, nobody really cares and instead of being enraged at this transfer going ahead, they're arguing about the best way to proceed with it.

Dumbest. Electorate. Ever.

YouTube - Six Minutes with the Renegade Economist - Michael Hudson Special...
 

smitchy2

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I'm really getting sick of this "its the public sector" ************************e.

It's like being hit by a car, your legs crushed, and the paramedics rushing to concentrate on the gash on your head instead of your crushed legs.
Get some perspective. The public sector in Ireland, esp the HSE, may be full of staff duplication and its higher levels full of bloated salerys but thats not the core problem here, the financial sector caused this disaster, and instead of reforming it were prostrating ourselves before it and saying "how may we please you master, please lend us our own money back at high intrest", were bailing some of these bondholders out on the one hand then asking them for that same money back to keep the lights on! This is ************************************g perverse, and all throughout it were talking about how Mary in the HSE office is in a job that doen's tneed to exist, we cant see the forest from the trees.

I'm also really worried at how obsessed everyone is with the defect while theres no talk about a road to actual recovery to generate new revenue, all I'm hearing are cuts plans, no recovery plans.

If the opposition have the same plans and vote for the same budget they ARE the same!
You are making plenty of hay for someone who has “just” joined the website.
Where have you been for the last 4 years?

The game is up, if you only think that happened in the last few days you are delusional.

The main parties have to say yes to the €6bn deficit reduction as the last lender in the world (“the imf”) are telling us that are the way it is.
Give me an example of a country that has successfully resisted an IMF with positive consequences?

The main decision to protect all the banks has limited any flexibility for us.
It will go down in history what has ruined us.
 


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