Will you let Fingers take your pension fund?

He3

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It is obscene that bankers retain pension while the rest of us seen our state and PS schemes wound up to try save banks.

That is the simple truth as written by Expatriot here http://www.politics.ie/economy/144318-has-national-pension-reserve-fund-been-spent-banks-already-24.html#post3228579

The deal announced yesterday, first by the EU's Juncker and later by Cowen, is not yet formalised. That will be done by way of what is called a Memorandum of Understanding that has not yet been signed. That Memorandum may well require Dáil approval under our Constitution.

If it gets through those hurdles, the next barrier is the general election. An incoming goverment could decide this deal is not acceptable. They will decide that if enough people demand that they do.

And the comment by Expatriot explains just how unacceptable this deal would be.
 
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Expatriot

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Thanks for starting a thread on this issue.

It would be obscene to take someones pension to save a private company, but if we are to do so at least start with the pension scheme in that company.

We will have no state or PS pension scheme here worth the name in 20 years time. We have repeatedly discussed the underfunding of public pension schemes. Now they are not funded at all. The pension levy is a bank recapitalization levy and PRSI is BRSI.

Bank employees are state employees. They have continued to get pay rises under national agreements most of us only dream of. Are the also to get defined benefit pensions while the rest of us rot?

Unions must demand the end of the PS pension scheme now, it is clearly a sham that will never pay out. At the very least an optional opt out if a must at this stage. Lets us be crystal clear, the State had no pension fund for the future and is sitting on a demographic time bomb.

If my pension scheme was wound up to create investment geared to employment I could see some good in it, but nobody believes there will ever be a return from these banks. This money is going down a sink hole, it is no investment. I will get no pension because of it.
 

Expatriot

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Lets be clear.

If you have a PS or PRSI OAP on the way to you in 20 years you will not get it now. You will either pay a lot more in, work into your 70s or get a much smaller pension. There is no other plan here. Your pension has just been given to the banks.

Whats more the tax relief you get for paying into this banking support scheme is about to be removed, so the price of this non pension will double. Nice one. Wake up people, you are being robbed blind here.
 

Expatriot

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IL&P are up over 50% on the stock market this am, my pension scheme is down 100%.

Animal Farm.

Animal Farm.
 

He3

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A candidate or party supporting this deal does not merit a vote.

That includes parties who call the deal a sellout but who will back it instead of repudiating it if elected.
 

cozzy121

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We are a country of sheep led by sheep.
 

Gadfly

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Politicians' pensions - can't be touched, the (government) lawyers tell us.
Bankers' golden parachutes - can't be touched, the (government) lawyers tell us.
€20 bn pension fund for regular citizens - hey presto, given away by the government.
Am I missing something?
 

EvotingMachine0197

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I watched Zeitgeist at the weekend. While at the extreme end of paranoia, a lot of it makes sense, as can now be witnessed by this raiding of the NPRF to support banks and bankers pensions.

Mind you, Youngdan had this all figured out years ago...
 

Paddythai

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Considering a huge section of our people do not have private pensions and those that do have seen their pensions dwindle this means that as we get older we will be poorer.
Most people I knoiw are lucky if they can get by as it is without saving for the future.

I know lots of people who had hoped to live off their Contributory pension while living in cheaper, wamer countries. Including myself.
 

collina

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Politicians' pensions - can't be touched, the (government) lawyers tell us.
Bankers' golden parachutes - can't be touched, the (government) lawyers tell us.
€20 bn pension fund for regular citizens - hey presto, given away by the government.
Am I missing something?
Old people are going to die this long hard winter while trying to heat their homes and eat properly. That will get worse every year from now on as SW payments dwindle. The FF/DarcyHarris/FingersSeanie circle of treachery has impoverished our old, and devoured the futures of our young.
 

Expatriot

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Is it really down 100% - why/how ????

Harry
Because the pension scheme I pay into via the pension levy, pension contribution and PRSI feeds into the national pension reserve fund to provide me with a pension.

That fund now no longer exists as a pension fund, it is a banking fund. There 100% of my contributions to date do not exist. If I am to get a pension in the future it will come from someone elses taxes not my pension scheme.
 

He3

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Because the pension scheme I pay into via the pension levy, pension contribution and PRSI feeds into the national pension reserve fund to provide me with a pension.

That fund now no longer exists as a pension fund, it is a banking fund. There 100% of my contributions to date do not exist. If I am to get a pension in the future it will come from someone elses taxes not my pension scheme.
That is the 'how'.

The 'why' is impossible to understand. How could elected representatives take their electors' money that they hold in trust and give it to bankers?

They told us there was no alternative to the bank guarantee. They were wrong.

They told us there was no alternative to NAMA. They were wrong.

They tell us there is no alternative to this deal. They are wrong.

They must not get away with this.
 

neutral_lurker

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We are a country of sheep led by sheep.
The problem is that people don't understand the implications of what is happening- most people feel financial dealings are over their head and are just confused by what is on the news.

Reading this topic has made me think, if I hadn't read it I might not get the implications for future pensions so clearly.

There needs to be a campaign to explain more clearly to the masses what is happening - a lot of older people for example watch RTE for news - whats that going to teach you?

The lack of vocal opposition is a big problem in this country if people really understood what is happening there would be more anger -whereas at the moment the anger is coming from discussion boards and not the average employed or unemployed citizen on the street who is confuddled by it all.
 

rockofcashel

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I watched Zeitgeist at the weekend. While at the extreme end of paranoia, a lot of it makes sense, as can now be witnessed by this raiding of the NPRF to support banks and bankers pensions.

Mind you, Youngdan had this all figured out years ago...

And where are all the posters that spent their evenings calling Youngdan a nutter ?

Where in the name of God are the public service workers this morning? Do they realise what is happening their pension yet ?

They should be on the streets
 

Harry700

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Realistically, will you eventually get a pension of some kind & how will that compare to what you should get ??

Harry

Because the pension scheme I pay into via the pension levy, pension contribution and PRSI feeds into the national pension reserve fund to provide me with a pension.

That fund now no longer exists as a pension fund, it is a banking fund. There 100% of my contributions to date do not exist. If I am to get a pension in the future it will come from someone elses taxes not my pension scheme.
 

He3

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And where are all the posters that spent their evenings calling Youngdan a nutter ?

Where in the name of God are the public service workers this morning? Do they realise what is happening their pension yet ?

They should be on the streets
Not just PS, that fund was also intended to benefit Old age pensioners.

The government TDs who made great headlines about opposing cuts in the weekly Pension have just decided to hand the whole pension pot over to the likes of Fingleton and Seanie and FG/Lab are going along with them.

Where are their headlines now?
 
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He3

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The problem is that people don't understand the implications of what is happening- most people feel financial dealings are over their head and are just confused by what is on the news.

Reading this topic has made me think, if I hadn't read it I might not get the implications for future pensions so clearly.

There needs to be a campaign to explain more clearly to the masses what is happening - a lot of older people for example watch RTE for news - whats that going to teach you?

The lack of vocal opposition is a big problem in this country if people really understood what is happening there would be more anger -whereas at the moment the anger is coming from discussion boards and not the average employed or unemployed citizen on the street who is confuddled by it all.
We are all learning as we go. The people we trusted to mind this stuff for us have let us down.
 

Expatriot

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Realistically, will you eventually get a pension of some kind & how will that compare to what you should get ??

Harry
Yes but it will be at the whim of the Minister for Finance at the time, it will in no way be based on what I paid for it. I should now be allowed to opt out of this scheme, it effectively no longer exists. I would settle for the standard OAP every other PAYE worker will get and buy my own pension. The banks can even keep what they have already taken.

If the deal has changed I should be allowed out. Nobody really thinks any PS worker in their 20s, 30s or 40s will get half their current wage when their retire. It is impossible. It is a carrot to milk them dry now. The retirement age will be extended, the pension taxed going in and coming out and the rates lowered. No question at all about it. Even with these pension fund that was going to happen, now it is definite.

In 20 years times most PS workers will be paid a lot less and have much less generous pensions, the political pressure to cut my pension will be unbearable as it will have to be funded from current taxes. That is not a pension scheme, its a sham.
 


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