Wind Turbines: The end is nigh?


Voluntary

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
2,870
Christ on a bike - wind has made FA difference to their dependence on coal, what part of that fact is still beyond you??
but the bike is broken

Electricity from renewables topped coal in Germany for first time in 2018

Coal is now in Germany’s rear-view mirror. In 2018, 40% of the country’s electricity mix came from wind, solar, biomass and hydroelectric sources. That’s up 4.3 percentage points over 2017, and topped coal generation (38% of the total) for the first time, according to the Fraunhofer research group. The bulk of the clean power came from onshore and offshore wind capacity (20.4% of total output) and solar (8.4% of total output).

Germany, Europe’s largest economy, is steadily retiring its coal and nuclear power plants as it seeks to cut carbon emissions over the coming decades. The country will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 40% next year, and by 95% in 2050, compared to 1990 levels.
 

Voluntary

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Messages
2,870

Carbontax

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
54
Largest portion of this increase is the increase of CO2 certificates price. Be sure this price is only going up.
When we start more virtue signaling by quatas for stored energy the price will increase. It only makes sense to store intermittent renewable energy.

Storing energy involves a number of cost elements:

(1)The Capital Cost of the storage system
(2) The Capital and financing cost of each marketable Storage Cycle.
(3) The round trip energy efficiency of each storage cycle regarding energy in to energy finally delivered.
 

Carbontax

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
54
Renewable Energy Certificates are no longer only about Renewable Electricity. Now Renewable Certificates for Cooling and Heating can be Traded between EU Nations to meet National Targets, per the latest Renewable Energy Directive.






Article 15
Guarantees of origin of electricity, heating and cooling
produced from renewable energy sources
1. For the purposes of proving to final customers the share or
quantity of energy from renewable sources in an energy supplier’s energy mix in accordance with Article 3(6) of Directive
2003/54/EC, Member States shall ensure that the origin of electricity produced from renewable energy sources can be guaranteed as such within the meaning of this Directive, in accordance
with objective, transparent and non-discriminatory criteria.
2. To that end, Member States shall ensure that a guarantee of
origin is issued in response to a request from a producer of electricity from renewable energy sources. Member States may
arrange for guarantees of origin to be issued in response to a
request from producers of heating and cooling from renewable
energy sources. Such an arrangement may be made subject to a
minimum capacity limit. A guarantee of origin shall be of the
standard size of 1 MWh. No more than one guarantee of origin
shall be issued in respect of each unit of energy produced.
Member States shall ensure that the same unit of energy from
renewable sources is taken into account only once.
Member States may provide that no support be granted to a producer when that producer receives a guarantee of origin for the
same production of energy from renewable sources.
The guarantee of origin shall have no function in terms of a Member State’s compliance with Article 3. Transfers of guarantees of
origin, separately or together with the physical transfer of energy,
shall have no effect on the decision of Member States to use statistical transfers, joint projects or joint support schemes for target
compliance or on the calculation of the gross final consumption
of energy from renewable sources in accordance with Article 5.
3. Any use of a guarantee of origin shall take place within 12
months of production of the corresponding energy unit. A guarantee of origin shall be cancelled once it has been used.
4. Member States or designated competent bodies shall supervise the issuance, transfer and cancellation of guarantees of origin. The designated competent bodies shall have non-overlapping
geographical responsibilities, and be independent of production,
trade and supply activities.
5. Member States or the designated competent bodies shall put
in place appropriate mechanisms to ensure that guarantees of origin shall be issued, transferred and cancelled electronically and are
accurate, reliable and fraud-resistant.
6. A guarantee of origin shall specify at least:
(a) the energy source from which the energy was produced and
the start and end dates of production;
(b) whether it relates to:
(i) electricity; or
(ii) heating or cooling;
(c) the identity, location, type and capacity of the installation
where the energy was produced;
(d) whether and to what extent the installation has benefited
from investment support, whether and to what extent the
unit of energy has benefited in any other way from a national
support scheme, and the type of support scheme;
(e) the date on which the installation became operational; and
(f) the date and country of issue and a unique identification
number.
7. Where an electricity supplier is required to prove the share
or quantity of energy from renewable sources in its energy mix
for the purposes of Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC, it may
do so by using its guarantees of origin.
8. The amount of energy from renewable sources corresponding to guarantees of origin transferred by an electricity supplier to
a third party shall be deducted from the share of energy from
renewable sources in its energy mix for the purposes of
Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC.
9. Member States shall recognise guarantees of origin issued by
other Member States in accordance with this Directive exclusively
as proof of the elements referred to in paragraph 1 and paragraph 6(a) to (f). A Member State may refuse to recognise a guarantee of origin only when it has well-founded doubts about its
accuracy, reliability or veracity. The Member State shall notify the
Commission of such a refusal and its justification.
10. If the Commission finds that a refusal to recognise a guarantee of origin is unfounded, the Commission may adopt a decision requiring the Member State in question to recognise it.
11. A Member State may introduce, in conformity with Community law, objective, transparent and non-discriminatory criteria for the use of guarantees of origin in complying with the
obligations laid down in Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC.
12. Where energy suppliers market energy from renewable
sources to consumers with a reference to environmental or other
benefits of energy from renewable sources, Member States may
require those energy suppliers to make available, in summary
form, information on the amount or share of energy from renewable sources that comes from installations or increased capacity
that became operational after 25 June 2009.


https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32009L0028&from=EN
 

Turbinator

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
1,749
When we start more virtue signaling by quatas for stored energy the price will increase. It only makes sense to store intermittent renewable energy.

Storing energy involves a number of cost elements:

(1)The Capital Cost of the storage system
(2) The Capital and financing cost of each marketable Storage Cycle.
(3) The round trip energy efficiency of each storage cycle regarding energy in to energy finally delivered.
Your wasting your time with the wind powered alarmist on here - their ignorance of basic economics is only matched by their ignorance of the basic principles of running a national grid
 

valamhic

Banned
Joined
Jan 31, 2011
Messages
19,844
As long as Germany misses "sustainable" targets we dont need to worry about Carbon fines.
The EU 2050 Strategy is ultimately based on a practical economic Carbon Storage Technolgy. Still no sign of one turning up.
Exactly. I wonder if all the money spent on wind etc were given to research in liaison with the big companies would they come up with a way to capture carbon. they won't pay tax, but they might spend on this and if they cracked it, it would be a breakthrough.
 

Voluntary

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
2,870
Well, from January 1, 2018, CO2 certificates are officially recognized as a form of a financial instrument and are being traded on the open market. The certificates price nearly instantly increased by 150% (from 1 Jan 2018 to 30 Nov 2018) making non-renewable energy much more expensive, hence the electricity price increases around Europe in the recent year. Higher the dependency on fossil fuels, larger the shock. This is the reality.

The certificate for 1 ton of co2 emission cost 8 Euro at the start of 2018 increasing to 20.5 Euro in November 2018 and it's estimated to reach 30-35 Euro in 2019 and due to the climate policy is set to increase further over time. Make your calculations.


This doesn't take into account horrendous healthcare costs associated with bad air quality and inhaling cancerogenous particles. If you add this up, you'll find that the long term cost of not moving quickly to renewable is much, much higher.


I won't even mention the quality of life, as it's difficult to measure but anyone with a brain prefers to breath fresh air.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,557
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
Renewable Energy Certificates are no longer only about Renewable Electricity. Now Renewable Certificates for Cooling and Heating can be Traded between EU Nations to meet National Targets, per the latest Renewable Energy Directive.






Article 15
Guarantees of origin of electricity, heating and cooling
produced from renewable energy sources
1. For the purposes of proving to final customers the share or
quantity of energy from renewable sources in an energy supplier’s energy mix in accordance with Article 3(6) of Directive
2003/54/EC, Member States shall ensure that the origin of electricity produced from renewable energy sources can be guaranteed as such within the meaning of this Directive, in accordance
with objective, transparent and non-discriminatory criteria.
2. To that end, Member States shall ensure that a guarantee of
origin is issued in response to a request from a producer of electricity from renewable energy sources. Member States may
arrange for guarantees of origin to be issued in response to a
request from producers of heating and cooling from renewable
energy sources. Such an arrangement may be made subject to a
minimum capacity limit. A guarantee of origin shall be of the
standard size of 1 MWh. No more than one guarantee of origin
shall be issued in respect of each unit of energy produced.
Member States shall ensure that the same unit of energy from
renewable sources is taken into account only once.
Member States may provide that no support be granted to a producer when that producer receives a guarantee of origin for the
same production of energy from renewable sources.
The guarantee of origin shall have no function in terms of a Member State’s compliance with Article 3. Transfers of guarantees of
origin, separately or together with the physical transfer of energy,
shall have no effect on the decision of Member States to use statistical transfers, joint projects or joint support schemes for target
compliance or on the calculation of the gross final consumption
of energy from renewable sources in accordance with Article 5.
3. Any use of a guarantee of origin shall take place within 12
months of production of the corresponding energy unit. A guarantee of origin shall be cancelled once it has been used.
4. Member States or designated competent bodies shall supervise the issuance, transfer and cancellation of guarantees of origin. The designated competent bodies shall have non-overlapping
geographical responsibilities, and be independent of production,
trade and supply activities.
5. Member States or the designated competent bodies shall put
in place appropriate mechanisms to ensure that guarantees of origin shall be issued, transferred and cancelled electronically and are
accurate, reliable and fraud-resistant.
6. A guarantee of origin shall specify at least:
(a) the energy source from which the energy was produced and
the start and end dates of production;
(b) whether it relates to:
(i) electricity; or
(ii) heating or cooling;
(c) the identity, location, type and capacity of the installation
where the energy was produced;
(d) whether and to what extent the installation has benefited
from investment support, whether and to what extent the
unit of energy has benefited in any other way from a national
support scheme, and the type of support scheme;
(e) the date on which the installation became operational; and
(f) the date and country of issue and a unique identification
number.
7. Where an electricity supplier is required to prove the share
or quantity of energy from renewable sources in its energy mix
for the purposes of Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC, it may
do so by using its guarantees of origin.
8. The amount of energy from renewable sources corresponding to guarantees of origin transferred by an electricity supplier to
a third party shall be deducted from the share of energy from
renewable sources in its energy mix for the purposes of
Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC.
9. Member States shall recognise guarantees of origin issued by
other Member States in accordance with this Directive exclusively
as proof of the elements referred to in paragraph 1 and paragraph 6(a) to (f). A Member State may refuse to recognise a guarantee of origin only when it has well-founded doubts about its
accuracy, reliability or veracity. The Member State shall notify the
Commission of such a refusal and its justification.
10. If the Commission finds that a refusal to recognise a guarantee of origin is unfounded, the Commission may adopt a decision requiring the Member State in question to recognise it.
11. A Member State may introduce, in conformity with Community law, objective, transparent and non-discriminatory criteria for the use of guarantees of origin in complying with the
obligations laid down in Article 3(6) of Directive 2003/54/EC.
12. Where energy suppliers market energy from renewable
sources to consumers with a reference to environmental or other
benefits of energy from renewable sources, Member States may
require those energy suppliers to make available, in summary
form, information on the amount or share of energy from renewable sources that comes from installations or increased capacity
that became operational after 25 June 2009.


https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32009L0028&from=EN
That's the whole point, poster Carbontax.
 

clearmurk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,019
Well, from January 1, 2018, CO2 certificates are officially recognized as a form of a financial instrument and are being traded on the open market. The certificates price nearly instantly increased by 150% (from 1 Jan 2018 to 30 Nov 2018) making non-renewable energy much more expensive, hence the electricity price increases around Europe in the recent year. Higher the dependency on fossil fuels, larger the shock. This is the reality.

The certificate for 1 ton of co2 emission cost 8 Euro at the start of 2018 increasing to 20.5 Euro in November 2018 and it's estimated to reach 30-35 Euro in 2019 and due to the climate policy is set to increase further over time. Make your calculations.


This doesn't take into account horrendous healthcare costs associated with bad air quality and inhaling cancerogenous particles. If you add this up, you'll find that the long term cost of not moving quickly to renewable is much, much higher.


I won't even mention the quality of life, as it's difficult to measure but anyone with a brain prefers to breath fresh air.
All you are saying here is that the religious nutjobs are taking over.

CO2 certificates are a 100% artificial construct.
 

Toland

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
64,557
Website
www.aggressive-secularist.com
All you are saying here is that the religious nutjobs are taking over.

CO2 certificates are a 100% artificial construct.
Of course they are. I've never heard of anyone claiming otherwise.

Spades are 100% artificial too. They're still very useful for digging the garden. Even the ones with heavy-duty plastic handles.
 

mangaire1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,369
Wow!!:roflmao: - you need to take some of your own medicine. You and Odious et al coming on here constantly and wanting everyone to go back to a wind powered stone age
we want to bring you back to the STONE AGE !!!
is that it Turbs ?

& you know Turbs, there was guy called Turbinator on here some time ago,
& he was promising us that we'd be back in the ICE AGE soon !!!!!!!
LOL !!!!!

you know Turbs, you'd be better off here in a STONE AGE than you'd be in an ICE AGE.

no wonder Turbs, that ol Val has been so agitated here in recent days.
he's in danger of being knocked off his pedestal, as the Comedian of P.ie, by your goodself.
 

Carbontax

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
54
we want to bring you back to the STONE AGE !!!
is that it Turbs ?

& you know Turbs, there was guy called Turbinator on here some time ago,
& he was promising us that we'd be back in the ICE AGE soon !!!!!!!
LOL !!!!!

you know Turbs, you'd be better off here in a STONE AGE than you'd be in an ICE AGE.

no wonder Turbs, that ol Val has been so agitated here in recent days.
he's in danger of being knocked off his pedestal, as the Comedian of P.ie, by your goodself.
A very personal attack from some one who would prefer an to be in the Stone age with the flint and fire than to live in a cold land with modern technology.
 

mangaire1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
9,369
A very personal attack from some one who would prefer an to be in the Stone age with the flint and fire than to live in a cold land with modern technology.
nah - don't think that the last Ice Age in Ireland anyway, was "a cold land with modern technology"

& BTW when ol Turbs told us that an Ice Age was coming "soon",
he also told us in the same comment that the EU would have to deport us the the Sahara !!!!!
I kid you not,
& you wonder why ol Turbs threatens Val as the Comedian of the site ?

& BTW I've asked ol Turbs numerous times when he reckons that his Ice Age arrives,
& he's always taken a Vow of Silence so far.
 

Turbinator

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
1,749
Well, from January 1, 2018, CO2 certificates are officially recognized as a form of a financial instrument and are being traded on the open market. The certificates price nearly instantly increased by 150% (from 1 Jan 2018 to 30 Nov 2018) making non-renewable energy much more expensive, hence the electricity price increases around Europe in the recent year. Higher the dependency on fossil fuels, larger the shock. This is the reality.

The certificate for 1 ton of co2 emission cost 8 Euro at the start of 2018 increasing to 20.5 Euro in November 2018 and it's estimated to reach 30-35 Euro in 2019 and due to the climate policy is set to increase further over time. Make your calculations.


This doesn't take into account horrendous healthcare costs associated with bad air quality and inhaling cancerogenous particles. If you add this up, you'll find that the long term cost of not moving quickly to renewable is much, much higher.


I won't even mention the quality of life, as it's difficult to measure but anyone with a brain prefers to breath fresh air.
Carbon trading is a massive scam - Apple claimed in their Athenry pre-planning submission that the will run the date centre on 100% renewables. When it was pointed out to them that it was not possible to do that with wind, their backers claimed they will build a solar farm in Arizona!!:laugh:
 

Turbinator

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
1,749
A very personal attack from some one who would prefer an to be in the Stone age with the flint and fire than to live in a cold land with modern technology.
Mangies contempt for those suffering energy poverty at the hands of the wind pushers is legendary on here I'm afraid
 

Voluntary

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Messages
2,870
Carbon trading is a massive scam
It is or it is not, its irrelevant. This is what it is and it's the environment we operate in and the costs / profits aren't artificial at all. You want to complain about CO2 certificates, that's for a different topic.
 
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