• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.




Women lacking ambition ? Is observation correct ?

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
Saatchi and Saatchi boss suspended from role after accusing women of lacking 'ambition' | Daily Mail Online

Saatchi and Saatchi senior boss suspended and probably will be dismissed by talking openly about the feedback he is getting from within the company.

"He said: 'So we are trying to impose our antiquated s*** on them, and they are going: 'Actually guys, you're missing the point, you don't understand: I'm way happier than you.'

'Their ambition is not a vertical ambition, it's this intrinsic, circular ambition to be happy. So they say: 'We are not judging ourselves by those standards that you idiotic dinosaur-like men judge yourself by'.

'I don't think (the lack of women in leadership roles) is a problem. I'm just not worried about it because they are very happy, they're very successful, and doing great work.

In many ways I can understand his position, there will never be the number of positions for promotion that people require and if someone gets it other than you it will get shouted "Jobs for boys.................glass ceiling" or "Jobs for girls..............gender selection". ..................... or in other cases "She/He is sleeping with someone".

I also understand the bit that younger people are looking at things differently................... younger means under 35.

Talking to someone recently on this (27 yr old) who has just been promoted to manage a team of 64, soon to be 24 when a cull happens, she said, "Not looked for promotion but will accept it".

However point she made wasn't didn't ever want her bosses job as on call pretty much 24/7 and most senior managers have least 1 divorce behind them or missed so much of kids life growing up that the money wasn't worth it.
Also said the greasy pole of promotion meant playing company politics forever and many people don't want that.

So was Saatchi guy right in identifying the trend where people rather be happy with a decent salary rather than forever chase promotions.
 


GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
Ad agencies have the highest turn over of staff of almost any white collar brain-slave cube-drone business in the UK.

Even call-centres do better on retention.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,460
Ambitious? Some sensible people have ambitions beyond a world where success is defined by progress in one's career.

I am a highly ambitious man...none of those ambitions are work-related.

Thankfully.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
Ad agencies have the highest turn over of staff of almost any white collar brain-slave cube-drone business in the UK.

Even call-centres do better on retention.
At the lower levels they take in huge number of grads and churn them out quickly, but he is not operating at that level he is looking at people a couple of years onwards and they do hold onto people then as they established then with a record behind them.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
At the lower levels they take in huge number of grads and churn them out quickly, but he is not operating at that level he is looking at people a couple of years onwards and they do hold onto people then as they established then with a record behind them.
And of course an ad manager can tell you exactly why women are not represented at the highest levels in corporate organisations in numbers proportionate to those which were recruited on the graduate milk round.

They can also tell you to go to work on an egg and that you're worth it :)
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,675
Twitter
No
Saatchi and Saatchi like any ad agency can get caught up in their own powerpoint mentality.

This fellow was rash in that he could easily have extended his thoughts and made sure he had feedback from both genders.

I would say he has a point in that the younger generation I have noticed are more likely to make decisions about their career which involves thinking about their whole lives and not just the career path. I think that is a good thing and have a theory that it is down to them seeing their parents' generation breaking themselves and their lives on the wheel of promotion-chasing for the mortgage, the two cars, the family holiday and the lack of real quality in their lives beyond consumerism.

I'll take a risk and say this will start showing up in statistics and demographic comment fairly soon.

You would imagine someone at a senior level in an worldwide organisation would have spotted the trap of discussing only one gender primarily in drawing generalisations from isolated feedback on single cases.

I suspect though what has really happened is that he has used the psychological step in his business of thinking in terms of bullet points from a powerpoint and extrapolating from that to provide saleable insight.

Essentially he forgot to stand back.

That is what will see him off in the end. There is also something of a 'guru' mentality about senior people at Saatchi and other leading ad agencies. Again I think it comes from constantly trying to sell 'insight'.

You can lose objectivity in that way of thinking and this is what has happened here very publicly.

I say that as someone who has spent some time close enough to observing how Saatchi senior bods think and how they produce insight for clients. They can unknowingly construct a 'permission bubble' around a project and fall into the trap of believing in what they want the end product to be.

Loss of objectivity and perspective.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
Saatchi and Saatchi like any ad agency can get caught up in their own powerpoint mentality.

This fellow was rash in that he could easily have extended his thoughts and made sure he had feedback from both genders.

I would say he has a point in that the younger generation I have noticed are more likely to make decisions about their career which involves thinking about their whole lives and not just the career path. I think that is a good thing and have a theory that it is down to them seeing their parents' generation breaking themselves and their lives on the wheel of promotion-chasing for the mortgage, the two cars, the family holiday and the lack of real quality in their lives beyond consumerism.

I'll take a risk and say this will start showing up in statistics and demographic comment fairly soon.

You would imagine someone at a senior level in an worldwide organisation would have spotted the trap of discussing only one gender primarily in drawing generalisations from isolated feedback on single cases.

I suspect though what has really happened is that he has used the psychological step in his business of thinking in terms of bullet points from a powerpoint and extrapolating from that to provide saleable insight.

Essentially he forgot to stand back.

That is what will see him off in the end. There is also something of a 'guru' mentality about senior people at Saatchi and other leading ad agencies. Again I think it comes from constantly trying to sell 'insight'.

You can lose objectivity in that way of thinking and this is what has happened here very publicly.

I say that as someone who has spent some time close enough to observing how Saatchi senior bods think and how they produce insight for clients. They can unknowingly construct a 'permission bubble' around a project and fall into the trap of believing in what they want the end product to be.

Loss of objectivity and perspective.
He I believe was talking of both genders but it is being quoted and framed in a context where he was targeting solely emales.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
And of course an ad manager can tell you exactly why women are not represented at the highest levels in corporate organisations in numbers proportionate to those which were recruited on the graduate milk round.

They can also tell you to go to work on an egg and that you're worth it :)

He is a lot more than an ad manager.

Graduate Milk round is a con as were they not to take in X hundred per year they dammed as going backwards so they take them in and in many cases natural selection will weed out 60% in 2 years.
 

runwiththewind

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
12,722
Ambitious? Some sensible people have ambitions beyond a world where success is defined by progress in one's career.

I am a highly ambitious man...none of those ambitions are work-related.

Thankfully.
I read somewhere that 60,000 was the salary that most single people would be happy with. It would pay the mortgage, car and all the bills. It would give you a couple of holidays and weekends away. Clothes and social life and save.

This is about right. Much more to life than heaps of money.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
I read somewhere that 60,000 was the salary that most single people would be happy with. It would pay the mortgage, car and all the bills. It would give you a couple of holidays and weekends away. Clothes and social life and save.

This is about right. Much more to life than heaps of money.

Then they'll have to dream on.

The average salary in the UK is 26, 500 stg and 34 000 euro in Ireland. And if you understand the concept of average, it means that a lot of people are not earning even that.
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
224,089
It probably is true that most women have ambitions that don't involve making advertisements for toilet paper and lawnmowers and presenting corrupt politicians and businessmen as pillars of society.
 

stopdoingstuff

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
22,904
The point about women's ambitions is to let them get on with it. It is not relevant whether they have more or less in general.
 

Calculusmadeeasy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
23,317
[video=youtube;jxs106rp5RQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxs106rp5RQ[/video]
 

Calculusmadeeasy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
23,317
I'm sure there's a point you're eager to make and arn't clear how to go about it.




A few words, no matter how halting sometimes serve.
Naw.
 

Mitsui2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
33,384
Ad agencies have the highest turn over of staff of almost any white collar brain-slave cube-drone business in the UK.

Even call-centres do better on retention.
From what I know of the trade (and I've had friends who spent years in it, some very successfully) much of the actual work in advertising is little different from call-centre work anyhow - it's just that the freebies, networking possibilities and and potential routes out-and-up are much better.

Most ad agencies have drones do all the legwork for the folks you see at various ad-agency love-ins. The drones are mainly low-paid and often badly-treated wannabes. Get stuck as a drone and in many ways it's little different from cold-calling strangers to sell them solar heating/taking complaints from outraged third-party consumers or whatever. Plus the advertising world is a lot more backstabbing.
 

Mitsui2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
33,384
Ambitious? Some sensible people have ambitions beyond a world where success is defined by progress in one's career.

I am a highly ambitious man...none of those ambitions are work-related.

Thankfully.
You've turned into quite the rock of common sense over the years, SIL.

Just saying - it's really very nice to see given how the mental health of some folk here has clearly deteriorated over the same period.
 

storybud1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
6,742
You've turned into quite the rock of common sense over the years, SIL.

Just saying - it's really very nice to see given how the mental health of some folk here has clearly deteriorated over the same period.
well said , even if I utterly disagree with your views on most topics it is nice to see courtesy ,

Hats off and I congratulate you, (don't spoil it, call it neutral ground) and thank you for being polite.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top