Workers worse off under the EU

RasherHash

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This is an interesting discussion on unions and their worth in modern Ireland.

I think they have been reduced to being a necessary evil, and perhaps this interview of David Gibney explains why.

Under the EU dictatorship workers rights have been eroded while individual rights have (according to him) been improved...

 


McTell

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Buuuut... being in the EU, and with FDI, we have much higher wages.

Isn't that what unions were mostly about, and, love them or hate them, they are good at shaking down employers. That's their business.
 

RasherHash

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Buuuut... being in the EU, and with FDI, we have much higher wages.

Isn't that what unions were mostly about, and, love them or hate them, they are good at shaking down employers. That's their business.
Gibney says we had on average 5% unemployment prior to joining, since joining we have had 10% unemployed.

Higher wages at the expence of jobs...not great at all.
 

McTell

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Sync

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Gibney says we had on average 5% unemployment prior to joining, since joining we have had 10% unemployed.

Higher wages at the expence of jobs...not great at all.
I’m assuming you mean “EEC and what followed” as opposed to “EU”.

Not sure of the context behind that selective stat, but it’s kind of like when people say things were better for american workers in the 50s or South African workers in the 80s.

It purposefully ignores the societal imbalance that existed.

It was whatever it was because women were blocked from the workforce, with fewer than 10% present prior to EC membership. I don’t put the increase into the workforce as directly attributable to membership, more correlation, but it’s an utterly false economy to disregard the emigration rate and the lack of half the population in the workforce.

Again: may not be attributable to the EC/EEC/EU (although by any reasonable statistical assessment it is) but workers in 2019 live much longer, enjoy a higher level of education, quality of work and equitable treatment in work than what preceded our time in Europe.
 

Ireniall

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Gibney says we had on average 5% unemployment prior to joining, since joining we have had 10% unemployed.

Higher wages at the expence of jobs...not great at all.
What a shameless bunch of lies. We now attract large numbers of immigrants into our country instead of showing thirty thousand Leaving Cert students the boat every year. There is a real problem starting to develop in modern times to do with the numbers of utterly barefaced liars who are prepared to spout this type drivel without hiding behind a curtain or something. Lets just cut to what this is all about. Hands up those who want to ring up Intel and tell them to f**k off home.
 

RasherHash

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What a shameless bunch of lies. We now attract large numbers of immigrants into our country instead of showing thirty thousand Leaving Cert students the boat every year. There is a real problem starting to develop in modern times to do with the numbers of utterly barefaced liars who are prepared to spout this type drivel without hiding behind a curtain or something. Lets just cut to what this is all about. Hands up those who want to ring up Intel and tell them to f**k off home.
People should have decent pay and conditions and no amount of shilling for the FG/FF clowns can paper over those cracks.
 

Sweet Darling

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What a shameless bunch of lies. We now attract large numbers of immigrants into our country instead of showing thirty thousand Leaving Cert students the boat every year. There is a real problem starting to develop in modern times to do with the numbers of utterly barefaced liars who are prepared to spout this type drivel without hiding behind a curtain or something. Lets just cut to what this is all about. Hands up those who want to ring up Intel and tell them to f**k off home.
The Best thing to happen this county, was joining the EEC.
Workers rights, Environmental laws, Women's rights all pushed through thanks to our membership of EU.
Before joining our only market to sell our goods to was Britain. Now we are more independent due to access to EU markets. We are a magnet for the likes of Intel.
Before EEC we were as backward as Albania, and as priest ridden as Italy. Now our youth travel abroad not as ditch diggers but as Uni' grads.
The improvement in employment laws thanks to the EU gave people a false feeling that unions are not needed. And union membership went right down in the private sector, and the behaviour of the greedy public sector unions gave unions a bad name.
The good times have not being good for unions.
Plus the Irish cartoon commies want to isolate the Island from the outside world to turn it in to another third world sh1thole like their beloved Cuba
Think Comrade Ogle and O'Connor and the other rich lads that infest the unions.
 

Ireniall

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People should have decent pay and conditions and no amount of shilling for the FG/FF clowns can paper over those cracks.
That is not the primary problem. The problem is the price of houses for young working couples. The only realistic answer is a sustained period of real wealth which is carefully managed. There is no point in our comparing ourselves to the Scandinavians who've been wealthy and well run for decades or more. Look at Sweet Darlings post there for a picture of what we've been like for the greater part of our independence. We are only just getting started and lots of what we do now is top notch.
 

raetsel

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What a shameless bunch of lies. We now attract large numbers of immigrants into our country instead of showing thirty thousand Leaving Cert students the boat every year. There is a real problem starting to develop in modern times to do with the numbers of utterly barefaced liars who are prepared to spout this type drivel without hiding behind a curtain or something. Lets just cut to what this is all about. Hands up those who want to ring up Intel and tell them to f**k off home.
It is shocking that clowns like Gibney can get away with such nonsense. Those of us who memories of life in Ireland in the early 1960s can well remember the backwardness and the inequality back then. There was almost no industry, emigration was the norm for the poor, with the exception that young women could find poorly paid jobs in the homes of the Irish middle classes as housemaids. The standard of the Irish road network was shocking and the prospect of someone from a working class background going to university was almost zero.
 

Barroso

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This is an interesting discussion on unions and their worth in modern Ireland.

I think they have been reduced to being a necessary evil, and perhaps this interview of David Gibney explains why.

Under the EU dictatorship workers rights have been eroded while individual rights have (according to him) been improved...

I don't think it's black and white.
Certainly things were very bad here in the 1950s, with huge unemployment and high emigration. The EEC in the 70s seems to have brought huge improvements, but the reality is that the 60s, pre-EEC, already brought great, positive change.
On the other hand, when we went into the EEC we lost control of our fisheries, as they were seen as unimportant.
Then again, being in the EEC didn't stop the depression and emigration of the 1980s, and certainly didn't stop the depression and emigration following the demise of the Celtic Tiger.
For myself, I'm glad that the EEC/EU got us out from under the shadow of England; but I do not know how much other good it brought us, in the sense that improvements owing to technological change would have taken place in any case.
On balance, I feel that we have benefitted, but many important questions about the EU are glossed over and not discussed.
 

Apple in Eden

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I don't think it's black and white.
Certainly things were very bad here in the 1950s, with huge unemployment and high emigration. The EEC in the 70s seems to have brought huge improvements, but the reality is that the 60s, pre-EEC, already brought great, positive change.
On the other hand, when we went into the EEC we lost control of our fisheries, as they were seen as unimportant.
Then again, being in the EEC didn't stop the depression and emigration of the 1980s, and certainly didn't stop the depression and emigration following the demise of the Celtic Tiger.
For myself, I'm glad that the EEC/EU got us out from under the shadow of England; but I do not know how much other good it brought us, in the sense that improvements owing to technological change would have taken place in any case.
On balance, I feel that we have benefitted, but many important questions about the EU are glossed over and not discussed.
Very balanced and fair assessment which highlights the positives and negatives associated with our EEC/EC/EU experience. Right to pinpoint the obvious failure in the country to discuss many pertinent issues which are and will come to the fore in the years ahead. It seems to me that the current EU establishment are concentrated on following a federalist pathway and seem intent on finding ways to coerce and force non-believers to follow suit. Interesting times ahead when the Brexit nonsense is resolved one way or the other.
 


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