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Would an SD-Green pact exceed the sum of its parts?

Breanainn

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Aug 23, 2014
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Now that both parties have ruled out participation in a Coalition, they will likely need each other to maximise speaking rights in the next Dáil. Looking further ahead to a new election, both will be targeting support from young, middle-class, urban voters, and given they would both be running a single candidate in any given constituency, a transfer pact would maximise the pool of votes available to both parties. Could such an arrangement yield electoral rewards in Dublin and Leinster constituencies in particular? Given that their combined support currently stands at 5%, a doubling of that vote, and 10-15 seats would seem a realistic short-term goal.
 


Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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Now that both parties have ruled out participation in a Coalition, they will likely need each other to maximise speaking rights in the next Dáil. Looking further ahead to a new election, both will be targeting support from young, middle-class, urban voters, and given they would both be running a single candidate in any given constituency, a transfer pact would maximise the pool of votes available to both parties. Could such an arrangement yield electoral rewards in Dublin and Leinster constituencies in particular? Given that their combined support currently stands at 5%, a doubling of that vote, and 10-15 seats would seem a realistic short-term goal.
They are very similar in terms of ideology. I tend agree they should do some sort of deal.
 

automaticforthepeople

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The exact same term was used to describe the merger almost 18 years ago between Democratic Left and Labour. Today the opinion poll rating of Labour is below what it was for DL at its very best.

There's your answer! Go for it Eamon!
 

lostexpectation

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Now that both parties have ruled out participation in a Coalition, they will likely need each other to maximise speaking rights in the next Dáil. Looking further ahead to a new election, both will be targeting support from young, middle-class, urban voters, and given they would both be running a single candidate in any given constituency, a transfer pact would maximise the pool of votes available to both parties. Could such an arrangement yield electoral rewards in Dublin and Leinster constituencies in particular? Given that their combined support currently stands at 5%, a doubling of that vote, and 10-15 seats would seem a realistic short-term goal.
one has to wait and see what the greens will do in the next weeks.
 

Analyzer

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If I were in the SDP, I would not touch Biffo's GP chums with a barge pole.
 

Ulpian

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Feb 28, 2011
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499
The SocDems and the Greens have a voter base but it is not a large one.

They represent secular (i.e. non-religious) educated European-oriented urbanites in their 20s, 30s and 40s. The composition of the Greens voter base has changed a lot since the 1980s.

However, this voter base is relatively small. It wasn't sufficient to elect Roisin Shorthall, Catherine Murphy or Stephen Donnelly. A large portion of the votes that got Roisin Shorthall and Catherine Murphy were elected were working class votes for the candidate and wouldn't necessarily translate into support for a replacement SocDem candidate.

It could also be said that the SocDems and Greens are essentially an alternative Labour Party. For example:
- In 2011 the combined Labour Party/Catherine Murphy vote in Kildare North was 32% and in 2016 the combined Labour Party/Catherine Murphy vote in Kildare North was 31%.
- In 2016 the combined Labour Party/Stephen Donnelly vote in Wicklow was 25% and in 2016 the combined Labour Party/Stephen Donnelly vote in Wicklow as still 25%.

The total seats of Labour, the SocDems, the Greens, AAA-PBP, looney left independents (Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Joan Collins and Tommy Broughan), and liberal-left independents (Katherine Zappone, Maureen O'Sullivan, Finian McGrath) is 24 out of 158 seats. In 1989 Labour, the Workers' Party, the Greens, the Democratic Socialist Party and Tony Gregory (predecessor to Maureen O'Sullivan) had 25 out of 166 seats. That's 27 years, or one whole generation, and the ONLY REAL increase in the left wing seats in the Dail has come from Sinn Fein gains. It is worth noting that this has occurred even though the number of Dublin seats has increased in that period.

However, because the SocDem / Green / Labour voter base is hugely overrepresented in the media, universities, policy institutes and the arts they live in an echo chamber where they believe that they are representative of the whole of the Irish electorate rather than a small and particularly self-servicing slice of it.
 

Mercurial

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Jun 4, 2009
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The Social Democrats have a future as a version of the Labour Party with more credibility (unless and until they enter government).

The Irish Green Party doesn't seem to be as viable - they are too conservative, too urban, and too eclectic to compete with their more ruthless rivals.
 

PBP voter

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Both are extreme right wing parties. In fact FF,FG,LAB,SF,SD,Greens all offer the same broken capitalist model.
They could all join together.
 

saab900

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Join together. Get 10 seats. Go into government. Get obliterated. Repeat.

Seriously, what's the point?
 

Plebian

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Feb 20, 2011
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There's a potential synergy between The Greens, The SDs and Labour, there's an overlap between their potential voters. In the short term the SDs can't afford to be contaminated by anything other than the slightest association with the other two.

The SDs are supposedly dedicated to reducing the cost of living, the Greens are dedicated to increasing taxes on fuel and Labour are dedicated to charging the poor the same flat charges as the rich.
 

ibis

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Join together. Get 10 seats. Go into government. Get obliterated. Repeat.

Seriously, what's the point?
Doing the job you're elected for, rather than drawing your salary for five years and achieving nothing?

Just a thought.
 

SPN

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Looking further ahead to a new election, both will be targeting support from young, middle-class, urban voters, and given they would both be running a single candidate in any given constituency, a transfer pact would maximise the pool of votes available to both parties. Could such an arrangement yield electoral rewards in Dublin and Leinster constituencies in particular? Given that their combined support currently stands at 5%, a doubling of that vote, and 10-15 seats would seem a realistic short-term goal.
The Greens are a policy based party focused on fixing long term problems.

The Spoofers are a policy free party focused on talking shi'ite and grandstanding.

Not sure how the voters for either could be persuaded to vote for the other. There's no common ground whatsoever.




They are very similar in terms of ideology. I tend agree they should do some sort of deal.
The Spoofers don't have an idea, let alone an ideology.



If I were in the SD, I would not touch Biffo's GP chums with a barge pole.
Too right. Shortárse tried being in Government for a little while, but couldn't hack having to make hard decisions when there were grandstanding opportunities to be had.




There's a potential synergy between The Greens, The SDs and Labour, there's an overlap between their potential voters. In the short term the SDs can't afford to be contaminated by anything other than the slightest association with the other two.

The SDs are supposedly dedicated to reducing the cost of living, the Greens are dedicated to increasing taxes on fuel and Labour are dedicated to charging the poor the same flat charges as the rich.
There is absolutely no potential synergy between the Greens and either Amateur-FF or Provisional-Amateur-FF.

The Greens are a policy based party, focused on addressing the big, long term, problems.

The other two are opportunist grandstanding hypocrites who will talk the talk, but deliver jack shít.
 

dresden8

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Too right. Shortárse tried being in Government for a little while, but couldn't hack having to make hard decisions when there were grandstanding opportunities to be had.
Indeed. No doubt the greens would have voted confidence in every stroke Reilly, Shatter, Hogan et al pulled.

Ye have form in this regard.
 

Congalltee

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Nov 10, 2009
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Which was more useless in government:
Greens 2007-2011
Labour 2011-2016?

Lasting impact of greens: Nama, bank debt, bikes on trains
Lasting impact of labour: bank debt transferred to children.
 

SPN

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Which was more useless in government:
Greens 2007-2011
Labour 2011-2016?

Lasting impact of greens: Nama, bank debt, bikes on trains
Lasting impact of labour: bank debt transferred to children.
NAMA - what alternative would you have proposed?

Bank debt - what bank debt? The Irish Government put capital into the banks, just like every other Government in Europe. The banks debts are paid from the banks revenues. The capital stays in the capital account.

Bikes on trains - excellent idea.

You forgot the new planning regulations, the scrapping of plans to introduce third level fees, the insulation of thousands of houses of people at risk of fuel poverty, introduced the second home tax, landfill levies and incinerator levies increased, accelerated capital allowances for energy efficiency measures, civil partnership bill, scrapping the evoting machines, and the publication of a climate change bill.

Not too shabby for a 4% mandate.
 

ibis

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Mar 12, 2005
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NAMA - what alternative would you have proposed?

Bank debt - what bank debt? The Irish Government put capital into the banks, just like every other Government in Europe. The banks debts are paid from the banks revenues. The capital stays in the capital account.

Bikes on trains - excellent idea.

You forgot the new planning regulations, the scrapping of plans to introduce third level fees, the insulation of thousands of houses of people at risk of fuel poverty, introduced the second home tax, landfill levies and incinerator levies increased, accelerated capital allowances for energy efficiency measures, civil partnership bill, scrapping the evoting machines, and the publication of a climate change bill.

Not too shabby for a 4% mandate.
Also the Charities legislation.
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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33,281
Catherine Martin got up on her high horse (as the Greens like to do) in the Dail but are the green themselves interested in going into government?
Martin is a very very weak TD. I heard her on SOR and Hook. After both interviews I saw traight away why the Greens kept Eamon Ryan.
 

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