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Would Lab,SF,Green alternative have a chance?


B

birthday

Although the numbers may seem unlikely, one wonders if a pre-election pact between Labour,SF and Greens was announced, would it stand a chance?
Such an arrangement would offer a real break with the past, although SF would have to agree to tone down some of their policies.
Could it work, given that FG will have alienated so many sane voters following Kenny's out burst over sovereignty this week?
 


Squire Allworthy

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
NO!

Why would Labour tie itself to the other two, and why would anyone want to tie themselves to the current Green Party?
 

QuizMaster

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
3,208
Website
www.quizmatic.com
birthday, I don't mean to discourage you from free and open discussion on the internet, but I'm afraid this suggestion is utter bo**locks.
 
B

birthday

birthday, I don't mean to discourage you from free and open discussion on the internet, but I'm afraid this suggestion is utter bo**locks.
Thanks for your candid remarks.
Well, following Kenny's outburst this week, Labour are now my most likely choice right now for next GE.
It certainly would be nice to see a break with the past (gombeenism)-whether it would fly is another thing
 

JoeHickey

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
641
I honestly believe that if the electorate were to be given an alternative to FF/FG then they would rally to it in greater numbers then the polls at the moment actually suggest.

The last Red C poll put Lab/GRN/SF at 36%. Thats within striking distance, add an alternative that could enthuse the electorate and I believe it would grow, excite non voters/the young the disenchanted with politics and you are on your way to real change.

With transfers between the parties and with a negotiated programme for government between the parties you could have a left leaning government for the first time in Ireland.
 
Last edited:
B

birthday

I honestly believe that if the electorate were to be given an alternative to FF/FG then they would rally to it in greater numbers then the polls at the moment actually suggest.

The last Red C poll put Lab/GRN/SF at 38%. Thats within striking distance, add an alternative that could enthuse the electorate and I believe it would grow, excite non voters/the young the disenchanted with politics and you are on your way to real change.

With transfers between the parties and with a negotiated programme for government between the parties you could have a left leaning government for the first time in Ireland.
That is what I have been thinking. The programme would have to be in place well before polling day in order for this alternative to gather momentum.Food for thought- I think many people are tired of tweedledee tweedledum.
 

SinnShane

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
360
NO!

Why would Labour tie itself to the other two, and why would anyone want to tie themselves to the current Green Party?
Because radical change might be possible if Labour was open to an alternative strategy of joining leftist groups, which is what the party is meant to be about. The Greens, appalling though their behaviour is, are not too far gone to be a part of this.

Leaning left may bring a real future for Labour - The Irish Times - Wed, Apr 14, 2010

Anyways, why would you want to go into a government with Enda Kenny calling he shots when the possibility exists of being the largest party in a totally new arrangment??
 
R

RepublicanSocialist1798

Maybe Labour should go it alone, you just never know.
Labour don't have the strength in the border counties and rural areas that Sinn Fein have.

To be honest it's an idea I'd whole heartedly support but if it were to have the numbers you'd definitely need the backing of independents (including the likes of Michael Lowry and Jackie Healey Rae) as well as the Socialist Party and People Before Profit. It would be highly fractious but it could work.

Kenny's and the parties anti-national stance would alienate Republican voters like Bruton did during the Rainbow coalition.
 
B

birthday

Labour don't have the strength in the border counties and rural areas that Sinn Fein have.

To be honest it's an idea I'd whole heartedly support but if it were to have the numbers you'd definitely need the backing of independents (including the likes of Michael Lowry and Jackie Healey Rae) as well as the Socialist Party and People Before Profit. It would be highly fractious but it could work.

Kenny's and the parties anti-national stance would alienate Republican voters like Bruton did during the Rainbow coalition.
I do not believe that it would be a runner if it had to depend on support of independents such as Lowry or Healy Rae!
In my view, an alternative left movement would actually gather support if it stated that it would govern in the interests of all citizens for the medium to long term. It is partially because of influence from narrow sectoral and local interests that we are in such a state today.
Indeed, I think if it was announced in advance that it would not enter into any 'arrangements' with independents it might actually have more credibility in the eyes of potential voters.
 
R

RepublicanSocialist1798

I do not believe that it would be a runner if it had to depend on support of independents such as Lowry or Healy Rae!
In my view, an alternative left movement would actually gather support if it stated that it would govern in the interests of all citizens for the medium to long term. It is partially because of influence from narrow sectoral and local interests that we are in such a state today.
Indeed, I think if it was announced in advance that it would not enter into any 'arrangements' with independents it might actually have more credibility in the eyes of potential voters.
Where is this alternative left movement? Even if the system was changed politics would be still local hence one would have people like Healey Rae and Lowry.

To be honest if such a coalition happened Healey Rae and Lowry wouldn't be the most problematic (throw enough money at their constituencies and they'll be as happy as Larry)
 

deirdrem

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
921
Although the numbers may seem unlikely, one wonders if a pre-election pact between Labour,SF and Greens was announced, would it stand a chance?
Such an arrangement would offer a real break with the past, although SF would have to agree to tone down some of their policies.
Could it work, given that FG will have alienated so many sane voters following Kenny's out burst over sovereignty this week?
In a conversation with Ruairí Quinn in or around 2002, I mentioned this possibility to him, and his response was "People will be talking about this possibility within two years".

Unfortunately, that was not to be.
I feel that the greens are now too compromised by a) ditching their principles and their programme, and b) by hitching themselves to FF for this to be a runner at this staged.

To use a phrase usually applied to SF, the greens would have to be decontaminated before this could happen.

On the other hand, Labour has been taken over by the stickies to a large degree, and I think they would have serious difficulties working with SF. Altough power is a great aphrodisiac, they say ...

All that said, I would probably vote for this sort of an arrangement.
 

Republican-Socialist

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
987
It's a non-runner, Labour aren't a party of the left, they will be the crutch of Fine Gael and that's that. Sf aren't really making the gains one would expect during these times to present themselves as a serious political alternative, and the greens, well no-one should touch them with a barge pole
 

turdsl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
26,085
Sinn Fein will not make much of a gain,there will no preferences for the Greens this time,
anyone that expects big gains for Labour will also be wrong, it will not happen,Their only hope is with Fine Gael.
 

new jewell

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
407
In a conversation with Ruairí Quinn in or around 2002, I mentioned this possibility to him, and his response was "People will be talking about this possibility within two years".

Unfortunately, that was not to be.
I feel that the greens are now too compromised by a) ditching their principles and their programme, and b) by hitching themselves to FF for this to be a runner at this staged.

To use a phrase usually applied to SF, the greens would have to be decontaminated before this could happen.

On the other hand, Labour has been taken over by the stickies to a large degree, and I think they would have serious difficulties working with SF. Altough power is a great aphrodisiac, they say ...

All that said, I would probably vote for this sort of an arrangement.
Labour was not taken over by the Stickies, Labour was taken over by a group that tried to take over the Stickies and failed.The Stickies are still there albeit much diminished.Labour is now controlled by a group, of power at any cost egotists who would deal with SF or anybody else for that matter.Labour ought to be leading the Working Classes out onto the streets in protest and I think they would be surprised how much support they would get.But then they don't really want to change anything do they?
 

arcadeparade

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
590
The problem is that Labour, along with many other social democratic parties, have accepted that neo-liberalism has won.

I cant say they are wrong exactly, at the moment that policy is winning worldwide, and they would rather be subservient to it than have policies in the interest of the people of this country.

So as long as this neoliberalism exists, you wont see much good from the centre-left parties, although some change has to happen soon because things cant go on like this, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, destruction of the environment, a massive on going crisis of capital etc.

Whats needed is an anti-capitalist party of the left, we need to stop kinding ourselves that the leaders of labour are interested in this and somehow get started on building a real altenative. We are already seeing tiny bubbles of it with eirigi and the socialists, tiny and divisive as they are to some.

Great video here on neoliberalism by David Harvey and why we need t fight back this rollback of social democracy we are seeing under the guise of 'austerity measures':
Part 1 of 5:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWWMOzNNrQ&feature=related]YouTube - A Brief History of Neoliberalism by David Harvey 1/5[/ame]
 

tomybhoy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
302
Website
www.greyhoundnuts.com
Any party in any way aligned to the Greens will get hammered in the next election, best for them to pretend they dont know the Greens with way they are now perceived as a party of self interested liars.
 

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