Would we be better off as the 51st State?

adrem

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Just a broad question that struck me recently.

I know many people have ideological issues with the US in many areas but equally many people have ideological issues with the EU and even closer to home, with the current government.

Leaving them to one side - from a day to day perspective, would the Irish people be better off as the 51st state of the US than we are as a country within the EU?

Taxation wise - probably not hugely different. As a State we would operate our own budget anyway.

Policy wise - the US gives a lot of freedom to States to effect their own social policies, albeit with some overarching ones (abortion, gun control etc).

Employment - massive opportunity for Irish to travel and work in the US but more importantly as the entry point for US into Europe we would be a prime hub for US companies with EU customers.

Education - no massive change albeit a liklihood that there would be more transfers between US and Irish education facilities.

Health - the system can't get any worse - healthcare costs in the US are very high but I would think that State controls could be used to manage that risk and prevent spill over - the geographical distance would tend to prevent cost migration across State lines

Politics - all the focus would be on State politics - the national element would be gone. But how much of a real loss would that be ?

Statehood - gone. Again from a day to day perspective, would that make much of a difference?

Social identity - the US is far from Homogenous - individual States are just that so maintaining a sense of Irish-ness wouldn't be a major problem (we'd probably get federal assistance !!)

Yes - it's somewhat tongue in cheek but only somewhat. At many (non-idealogical) levels I reckon the current and future generations could actually benefit from our being positioned as a US State.

Any views in P.ie world?
 


Asparagus

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Well on the one hand we do share more culturally with the US than we do with europe.

But on the other hand i don't think many people here support US Foreign Policy.
485000 of US would get slaughtered by an american social welfare system.
Our neutrality would be surrendered (which in isolation is no bad thing) and we would be the easiet target for terrorist attacks.
We'd have to change to driving on the right.

We'd have to be patriotic and start watching baseball and saluting the flag and sh1t and thats just not how we roll...

And i don't think they'd have us.
 

cyberianpan

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2015:
President Sarah Palin pays a visit to Ireland today where she is expected to endorse the campaign of Jackie Healy-Rae for governor

Seriously... I like the US a lot, and do think we should be looking towards them. Three red lines that I'd like to see them improve on:

1) Waaaay less death penalties
2) A moral foreign policy
3) The Palinosaur and her ilk to quit it

cYp
 

merle haggard

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2015:
President Sarah Palin pays a visit to Ireland today where she is expected to endorse the campaign of Jackie Healy-Rae for governor

Seriously... I like the US a lot, and do think we should be looking towards them. Three red lines that I'd like to see them improve on:

1) Waaaay less death penalties
2) A moral foreign policy
3) The Palinosaur and her ilk to quit it

cYp

if your a citizen of a country you have a vote to change such things just like anyone else , your objections therefore arent a valid reason . The USA is also well capable fo taking that decision for Ireland whether we like it or not , just like its little british freind has and does where we are concerned .
 

Scipio

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If were a choice of becoming part of the U.S. or returning to the U.K., then I'd choose the U.S. every time. 35 million Irish Americans would come in handy when it comes to getting dollars from Washington, and with the state/federal legislative system, we'd keep far more independence than say Scotland has in the U.K.

As such an event is highly unrealistic, to say the least, I'll keep the E.U., the common market, and our independence.
 

cyberianpan

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if your a citizen of a country you have a vote to change such things just like anyone else , your objections therefore arent a valid reason . The USA is also well capable fo taking that decision for Ireland whether we like it or not , just like its little british freind has and does where we are concerned .

My point is that there would need to be improvement on those 3 matters before I'd vote to join

In the short term I'd prefer to rejoin the UK, as we're very well matched

cYp
 

Fir Bolg

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Why do people keep posting these ridicuolus questions. Its akin to the rejoin the UK or rejoin the commonwealth threads. Its not going to happen. Not without serious bloodshed. There is no way on earth this would happen without a significant amount of Irish people opposing it through force of arms. I would support those Irish people.
 

merle haggard

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My point is that there would need to be improvement on those 3 matters before I'd vote to join

In the short term I'd prefer to rejoin the UK, as we're very well matched

cYp

i know theres a problem with an ash cloud from time to time but theres still a ferry and a noticable absence of icebergs . If the mountain wont come to mohammed and all that .
 

merle haggard

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Why do people keep posting these ridicuolus questions. Its akin to the rejoin the UK or rejoin the commonwealth threads. Its not going to happen. Not without serious bloodshed. There is no way on earth this would happen without a significant amount of Irish people opposing it through force of arms. I would support those Irish people.
me too, its pathetic . Its all look at me, i dont go to mass either...whoop de doo.
 

Squire Allworthy

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Our future lies with Europe.

Europe's future very much depends on its relationship with its immediate neighbours in Eastern Europe and around the Mediterranean sea.

I think it is a better future than that likely to befall America. It is an empire in decline and they don't seem to realise that yet. Empires are expensive things to control and once the money stops flowing all sorts of problems arise.
 

stanley

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Why do people keep posting these ridicuolus questions. Its akin to the rejoin the UK or rejoin the commonwealth threads. Its not going to happen. Not without serious bloodshed. There is no way on earth this would happen without a significant amount of Irish people opposing it through force of arms. I would support those Irish people.

If it were to happen would not give a damn about serious blodshed as long as it was of the FF variety who have brought the independance of this country to a point where these questions can be relevant.

In FF's case the only stumbling block would be price, motive is well established.
 

Scipio

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Our future lies with Europe.

Europe's future very much depends on its relationship with its immediate neighbours in Eastern Europe and around the Mediterranean sea.

I think it is a better future than that likely to befall America. It is an empire in decline and they don't seem to realise that yet. Empires are expensive things to control and once the money stops flowing all sorts of problems arise.
The Romans went through decline and rebirth many times before the West eventually fell in 476 AD. In Empire terms, the U.S. is young. I wouldn't count them out just yet.
 

Fir Bolg

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If it were to happen would not give a damn about serious blodshed as long as it was of the FF variety who have brought the independance of this country to a point where these questions can be relevant.

In FF's case the only stumbling block would be price, motive is well established.
These questions are not relevant. FF deserve to get their cuppence (not just for their recent bungling of the economy) but not at the expense of the Irish peoples right to govern themselves. Jumping into bed with America (with all its religious baggage and right wing nutjobs) or with Britain (remember how welll that worked out for us in the past) is a kop out. Always looking elsewhere to find the solution and never focusing on the fact that we must sort out our own problems.
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Just a broad question that struck me recently.

I know many people have ideological issues with the US in many areas but equally many people have ideological issues with the EU and even closer to home, with the current government.

Leaving them to one side - from a day to day perspective, would the Irish people be better off as the 51st state of the US than we are as a country within the EU?

Taxation wise - probably not hugely different. As a State we would operate our own budget anyway.

Policy wise - the US gives a lot of freedom to States to effect their own social policies, albeit with some overarching ones (abortion, gun control etc).

Employment - massive opportunity for Irish to travel and work in the US but more importantly as the entry point for US into Europe we would be a prime hub for US companies with EU customers.

Education - no massive change albeit a liklihood that there would be more transfers between US and Irish education facilities.

Health - the system can't get any worse - healthcare costs in the US are very high but I would think that State controls could be used to manage that risk and prevent spill over - the geographical distance would tend to prevent cost migration across State lines

Politics - all the focus would be on State politics - the national element would be gone. But how much of a real loss would that be ?

Statehood - gone. Again from a day to day perspective, would that make much of a difference?

Social identity - the US is far from Homogenous - individual States are just that so maintaining a sense of Irish-ness wouldn't be a major problem (we'd probably get federal assistance !!)

Yes - it's somewhat tongue in cheek but only somewhat. At many (non-idealogical) levels I reckon the current and future generations could actually benefit from our being positioned as a US State.

Any views in P.ie world?
Is this not an advantage we derive from membership of the EU?
 

Aristodemus

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An idiotic idea. How can people even consider an option like that? What is the point of sovereignty after all? I note that America is offered as the solution, why not Britain which is just as absurd a notion?
 
D

Deleted member 17573

An idiotic idea. How can people even consider an option like that? What is the point of sovereignty after all? I note that America is offered as the solution, why not Britain which is just as absurd a notion?
Britain would make more sense - at least you could make an argument from the standpoint of the British Isles being a natural geographical/economic unit.
 

bogmanjoe

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Well with 70% of Irish exports emerging from U.S. companies
Ireland is an economic colony, and to certain extent
culturally. I don,t see how anyone can snipe at U.S.
politicians when you look at the performance of FF FG SF LAB.
 

Squire Allworthy

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The Romans went through decline and rebirth many times before the West eventually fell in 476 AD. In Empire terms, the U.S. is young. I wouldn't count them out just yet.
A few more like Trajan and they would still be around today.



and some flowers only bloom for a day. If they are stupid enough to go start a war with Iran their end will not be that far off.
 


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