Years of Lead

Equinox

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Kraut and Tea offers a very relevant history lesson in this video on Italy's 'years of lead', like our 'troubles' it's a term that describes the period of Italy's decent into tit for tat communist and fascist terrorism and violence that claimed many lives between the late 60's and 80's.
The years of lead began with the 68r's and their Marxist student revolts which birthed the Red Brigades, they launched a campaign of assassinations that even included the kidnap of Italian Prime minister Aldo Moro, who after a brief 'trial by the people' (sic) was murdered and dumped in a bin.

The left wing violence became so bad it managed to resuscitate the flagging fortunes of Italy's fascist party who claimed to offer stability against the anarchy of the violent left, and they did so with a murderous campaign that managed to outstrip the red brigades body count.

You can't help but draw parallels to today's political climate in Europe and America. We have a left hell bent on an ideological takeover and are quite prepared to ignore both democracy and the rule of law to achieve it. Already their behaviour has precipitated a right wing backlash in the form of Brexit, LePenn, Wilders and Trump.


Are we headed into our own 'years of lead', or can we reclaim politics from the extremes?

[video=youtube;hnwyv3RyJyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnwyv3RyJyc[/video]
 


derryman

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If we let the extremists get a grip it will take generations to extricate ourselves. Unfortunately extremism of one bent or another seems to be the only choice on offer.
 

Equinox

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If we let the extremists get a grip it will take generations to extricate ourselves. Unfortunately extremism of one bent or another seems to be the only choice on offer.
As with Italy, the failure to nip the low level violence in the bud, but rather ignore it, will I fear walk us down this path. The failure of the media to call out or challenge the likes of Black Lives Matter and Antifa's tactics and motives, but instead offer mealy mouthed justifications for their behaviour has undermined democracy and created a space for right wing fascism to flourish in the absence of government's willingness or ability to address the societal pressures that are driving both sides.
We badly, now more then ever, need politicians with vision. They need to stop their tacit ideological backing for the failed policies of mass immigration and globalization and focus on rebuilding the social cohesion that has been demolished by these twin pillars of chaos. This by necessity requires an undoing of the culture of extreme individualism to create more social capital and trust. Sadly I can't see many in power today that could be considered up to the job.
 

Analyzer

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Equinox is correct. If the political centre does not respond to immorality and society wrecking from the Marxists, the right eventually gets asked to do it.

Also I am remind of Churchill's prediction that after WW2, that the fascists will position themselves as anti-fascists'.

That was exactly what happened in the Spoiled Brat revolution in Western Europe in 1968.
 

Equinox

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Equinox is correct. If the political centre does not respond to immorality and society wrecking from the Marxists, the right eventually gets asked to do it.

Also I am remind of Churchill's prediction that after WW2, that the fascists will position themselves as anti-fascists'.

That was exactly what happened in the Spoiled Brat revolution in Western Europe in 1968.
Indeed. What struck me about that very well researched video (it's well worth 15mins of your time) was the sense of deja vu.
For all the talk of snowflakes, SJW's the Alt-Right etc, you can't help but realize watching it that we've been here before.
Our leaders need to step back from ideological groupthink and start considering where the policies they are backing will lead. Long term thinkers are required. A vision of who we are and where we are goings as a people needs to be central to that long term planning.
Sadly, virtue signalling is a popular policy because it costs nothing and our leaders vision only extends to the end of their nose.
 

Analyzer

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In real life people virtue signal because their motives are to behave like absolute phuckers.

This has always been the case.

They simply use the tactic, and have whatever cloak suits them in the particular era. In previous eras they would have been puritans, communists, etc...
 

blokesbloke

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It is the mainstream who is responsible for people going to the extremes.

People do not generally like voting for extreme parties and will only do so if they feel they have no choice because the mainstream are refusing to listen to them.

If the extreme is elected, the mainstream is culpable.
 

Sheeple_Waker

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The left taking over? The organised left in Europe and elsewhere is the weakest it's been since the industrial revolution. Even the events of th GFC, which should have acted as a shot in the arm to the anti-capitalist left, saw them make few tangible political gains.

Moreover the entire political climate is far more right wing than it ever has been (1930s excepted). There is no mainstream left party that eschews neo-liberal economics. 'Left' parties from Ireland to Australia have presided over the privatisation of state assets, deregulation of economies and growing income inequality. Barring the Guardian there is no mainstream global media outlet with a consistent left wing editorial slant. The cultural war, such as it is, is being won by conservatives. Yet you're still insecure and worried about left wing extremism? Some historical perspective is missing from this debate methinks.
 

im axeled

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we need another lemas and a whitteker, instead when we look at the main political partys we slowly shake our heads
 

GJG

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... The left wing violence became so bad it managed to resuscitate the flagging fortunes of Italy's fascist party who claimed to offer stability against the anarchy of the violent left, and they did so with a murderous campaign that managed to outstrip the red brigades body count ... We have a left hell bent on an ideological takeover and are quite prepared to ignore both democracy and the rule of law to achieve it. Already their behaviour has precipitated a right wing backlash in the form of Brexit, LePenn, Wilders and Trump.

The failure of the media to call out or challenge the likes of Black Lives Matter and Antifa's tactics and motives, but instead offer mealy mouthed justifications for their behaviour has undermined democracy and created a space for right wing fascism to flourish ...
If the political centre does not respond to immorality and society wrecking from the Marxists, the right eventually gets asked to do it.
So, to be clear, left-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists, and right-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists too?

You should read a little history. I would recommend The Dark Heart of Italy by Tobias Jones. It has been known since the P2 scandals that the Italian secret service were running the fascist terrorists, pretty much directly. It also now seems that the same secret service were, to a significant degree, running the Red Brigades. They were effectively at war with themselves, in what was called the strategia della tensione, the Pressure Strategy.

There were a number of attacks where the timing was pivotal to key parlimentary votes. Dublin and Monaghan bombings anyone?
 

Equinox

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So, to be clear, left-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists, and right-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists too?

You should read a little history. I would recommend The Dark Heart of Italy by Tobias Jones. It has been known since the P2 scandals that the Italian secret service were running the fascist terrorists, pretty much directly. It also now seems that the same secret service were, to a significant degree, running the Red Brigades. They were effectively at war with themselves, in what was called the strategia della tensione, the Pressure Strategy.

There were a number of attacks where the timing was pivotal to key parlimentary votes. Dublin and Monaghan bombings anyone?
There is pleny of blame to go around, I'm saying that the left has started it, as with any spiral of violence born out of frustration with the established order, the best measure of avoiding it is not to begin it. That means politicians addressing reasonable concerns. Cheerleading thugs will only embolden a violent response.

There is however something inverse about the current situation, the 'years of lead' started with student Marxist violence. The Marxists tend to have a romanticised view of 'revolution' and it rarely involves the tedium of slowly building a popular groundswell of democratic support for their position. It's just so much more romantic to lob a petrol bomb at 'the man'. This time however it's the generation of 68'rs however are now the 'the man' and the revolt against the establishment has been a quiet revolution by the working classes to democratically oust them for ignoring their interests and concerns.
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration
This has precipitated the usual left wing thuggery in response.

If you bothered to actually watch the video, it should be plain to you what you will reap from the violence that you sow.
 
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Equinox

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Equinox is correct. If the political centre does not respond to immorality and society wrecking from the Marxists, the right eventually gets asked to do it.

Also I am remind of Churchill's prediction that after WW2, that the fascists will position themselves as anti-fascists'.

That was exactly what happened in the Spoiled Brat revolution in Western Europe in 1968.
The problem is that ‘years of lead’ might be inevitable, i'm pessimistic that the ship can change course at this point.
Just as you can never un-scramble an egg (thanks second law of thermodynamics!), so I fear it is with society. We are surely living in a time of social and societal entropy, the center cannot hold and thus total collapse is becoming inevitable before we can have any prospect of rebuilding.
 

RasherHash

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The problem is that ‘years of lead’ might be inevitable, i'm pessimistic that the ship can change course at this point.
Just as you can never un-scramble an egg (thanks second law of thermodynamics!), so I fear it is with society. We are surely living in a time of social and societal entropy, the center cannot hold and thus total collapse is becoming inevitable before we can have any prospect of rebuilding.
Hopefully the centre won't hold, the Blairite/FF/FG approach has been dismal for many hence you have endless wars, Obama dropping 26,000 bombs on poor third worlders in 2016 alone, B-B-Bertie and Enda allowed them to rendition people and weapons through Shannon and forced the working people to pay for their lying and scheming during the Celtic tiger years.

The 'centre' has been a disaster.
 

PeaceGoalie

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It is the mainstream who is responsible for people going to the extremes. People do not generally like voting for extreme parties and will only do so if they feel they have no choice because the mainstream are refusing to listen to them. If the extreme is elected, the mainstream is culpable.
You think voting solves matters. Fascists like Sinn Fein, like Hitler before them, believe in taking power with a ballot box in one hand and an Armalite or its equivalent in the other. However, as most Sinn Feiners, Gerry Adams being a prime example, are from dysfunctional, feral-type families where incest and crime is the norm, they do not see the bigger picture which those deep state assets charged with handling them do.

The left taking over? The organised left in Europe and elsewhere is the weakest it's been since the industrial revolution. Even the events of th GFC, which should have acted as a shot in the arm to the anti-capitalist left, saw them make few tangible political gains.

Moreover the entire political climate is far more right wing than it ever has been (1930s excepted). There is no mainstream left party that eschews neo-liberal economics. 'Left' parties from Ireland to Australia have presided over the privatisation of state assets, deregulation of economies and growing income inequality. Barring the Guardian there is no mainstream global media outlet with a consistent left wing editorial slant. The cultural war, such as it is, is being won by conservatives. Yet you're still insecure and worried about left wing extremism? Some historical perspective is missing from this debate methinks.
You are looking on politicians as a one dimensional plane with left and right at either extreme. That is an infantile now as when left and right were co-opted at the time of the French Revolution (sic)

You should read a little history. I would recommend The Dark Heart of Italy by Tobias Jones. It has been known since the P2 scandals that the Italian secret service were running the fascist terrorists, pretty much directly. It also now seems that the same secret service were, to a significant degree, running the Red Brigades. They were effectively at war with themselves, in what was called the strategia della tensione, the Pressure Strategy.There were a number of attacks where the timing was pivotal to key parlimentary votes. Dublin and Monaghan bombings anyone?
You obviously had and, reading the OP and the earlier comments, the omission of the points you raise was glaring.

I checked out your excellent OP and was disappointed to see the stupid posts put in it to derail it. Here in Ireland, we have a group of fascists centred around Sinn Fein, who con others by attacking Identity Ireland and convincing the gullible that the Muslim Brotherhood dearth squads are victims (those Sinn Fein allies blew up 100 Sufis in Pakistan today but I digress). Sinn Fein and the PIRA Army Council have worked with other fascists, drug dealers and common criminals the world over. To what end? To copper fasten partition and to have nests of foreign agents in every town and hamlet in Ireland. The end result of that is the age of lead is finished in Ireland and whatever protest there is can be siphoned through Sinn Fein and other safe hands.
 

TheWolf

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Ryan's fart muncher really should be locked up for his own good and not allowed internet access.
The odd scribble of his I look at are always moonhowling and windowlicking wrapped up in one collection of meaningless words.
Serious issues there, real serious.
 

Paddyc

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So, to be clear, left-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists, and right-wing violence is the fault of left-wing extremists too?

You should read a little history. I would recommend The Dark Heart of Italy by Tobias Jones. It has been known since the P2 scandals that the Italian secret service were running the fascist terrorists, pretty much directly. It also now seems that the same secret service were, to a significant degree, running the Red Brigades. They were effectively at war with themselves, in what was called the strategia della tensione, the Pressure Strategy.

There were a number of attacks where the timing was pivotal to key parlimentary votes. Dublin and Monaghan bombings anyone?
I remember reading somewhere that the bullets used to murder Aldo Mori were of a calibre issued only to Italian special forces and had never been used by the Red Brigades before or since.

This was also referred to as the "Strategy of Tension".
 

PeaceGoalie

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I remember reading somewhere that the bullets used to murder Aldo Mori were of a calibre issued only to Italian special forces and had never been used by the Red Brigades before or since. This was also referred to as the "Strategy of Tension".
The Irish example illustrates. G2 helped set up PIRA and people like Joe Cahill worked for G2 and Irish Special Branch from the get go. He wasn't hanged along with Tom Williams because her was an up and coming agent, the Stakeknife of his era. The late Fr Denis Faul used to tell his Dungannon students that if they joined PIRA, their boss and his boss and his boss would all be MI6 and Fr Faul was right.

When NICRA were making real progress, G2 and MI6 got the Provos going a la Arab Spring. Create a problem, have organised chaos, control both sides and give the solution, which is Coco and pals helping HM rule paper of Ireland.
With regard to the Italian and German Red Army factions, no matter how much we give them the benefit of the doubt, they were up against big, powerful institutions, who, like MI6, could infiltrate and get agents of influence, some of who are powerful MEPs and Ministers today.
Fascist and communist ideologies believe they can muster the masses (communists) or a strong, united group (fascists) and punch or goose step their way to power. Identity politics and similar nonsense stop that. Hitler's SA were all raging homosexuals and at the Night of the Long Knives, they were all up each other's backsides, much like they were at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis. Hitler, a closet homosexual himself, had all their leaders bumped off and the Third Reich then took its course.
Fascist groups like Adams' think they can do a Hitler or a Mussolini. But they are the monkeys, not the organ grinders. In the case of the PIRA murder gang, American court evidence showed they were controlled by the CIA who wanted to ensure they did not shop elsewhere. PIRA's biggest threat was Libya but Joe Cahill's tip off put paid to that. Ferris' arms supply came from Whitey Bolger, a CIA stooge.
The DUP etc cooperate in forming the Stormont Executive because the deep state convinced them it was the way to go and that it would allow them infiltrate South Armagh and the other hold outs.
Adams still prattles about a united Ireland and socialism even as he begs to be allowed prostrate himself like a hunch backed leprechaun in front of POTUS Trump on Paddy's day. MI6 have the goods on Sinn Fein as they played the long game. Italy is still a NATO member., it helped destroy and loot Gadaffi's Libya. The diversionary ideological squabbles continue but the bank always win, even if they throw collaborators like Adams the odd bone.
 

Sheeple_Waker

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The Irish example illustrates. G2 helped set up PIRA and people like Joe Cahill worked for G2 and Irish Special Branch from the get go. He wasn't hanged along with Tom Williams because her was an up and coming agent, the Stakeknife of his era. The late Fr Denis Faul used to tell his Dungannon students that if they joined PIRA, their boss and his boss and his boss would all be MI6 and Fr Faul was right.

When NICRA were making real progress, G2 and MI6 got the Provos going a la Arab Spring. Create a problem, have organised chaos, control both sides and give the solution, which is Coco and pals helping HM rule paper of Ireland.
With regard to the Italian and German Red Army factions, no matter how much we give them the benefit of the doubt, they were up against big, powerful institutions, who, like MI6, could infiltrate and get agents of influence, some of who are powerful MEPs and Ministers today.
Fascist and communist ideologies believe they can muster the masses (communists) or a strong, united group (fascists) and punch or goose step their way to power. Identity politics and similar nonsense stop that. Hitler's SA were all raging homosexuals and at the Night of the Long Knives, they were all up each other's backsides, much like they were at a Sinn Fein Ard Fheis. Hitler, a closet homosexual himself, had all their leaders bumped off and the Third Reich then took its course.
Fascist groups like Adams' think they can do a Hitler or a Mussolini. But they are the monkeys, not the organ grinders. In the case of the PIRA murder gang, American court evidence showed they were controlled by the CIA who wanted to ensure they did not shop elsewhere. PIRA's biggest threat was Libya but Joe Cahill's tip off put paid to that. Ferris' arms supply came from Whitey Bolger, a CIA stooge.
The DUP etc cooperate in forming the Stormont Executive because the deep state convinced them it was the way to go and that it would allow them infiltrate South Armagh and the other hold outs.
Adams still prattles about a united Ireland and socialism even as he begs to be allowed prostrate himself like a hunch backed leprechaun in front of POTUS Trump on Paddy's day. MI6 have the goods on Sinn Fein as they played the long game. Italy is still a NATO member., it helped destroy and loot Gadaffi's Libya. The diversionary ideological squabbles continue but the bank always win, even if they throw collaborators like Adams the odd bone.
Off your meds for the weekend,?
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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Life is about balance, all extremists whether Trumpettes or Le Pen(ises) or Guardianistas whining about PewDiePie, its all about the balance folks.

Nature finds a way as the saying goes. We will have a few years of extremists thinking their time has come only for them to find that people are well and truly sick of their incessant whining.

Balance is what people need to strive for.
 


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