Yesterdays coup d'etat in Rome

scolairebocht

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A perennial pub quiz question is what is the smallest country in Europe and maybe the world?

And if you are stumped the hints are that it is a tiny, but seperately sovereign, place inside Rome which really only houses a few buildings including this countries archives, spanning at least 900 years of its seperate sovereign history. And even though its tiny it has its own passports - including diplomatic ones which grant diplomatic immunity in many countries around the world -, observer status at the United Nations, currency, stamps, licence plates, etc etc all accepted as seperate sovereign issues by the 106 states with which it has formal diplomatic relations.

Although it is very small it has quite an international reach, but mostly in the religious and humanitarian realms nowadays although in the past it had famous armies etc. It does indeed still retain its small military corps and in fact its probably not widely known but as late as the 1950s it had its own airforce, admittedly this was mainly because the Italian army was using its seperate sovereignty to get around restrictions on its own airforce. In fact its insignia and flag are quite prominent around the world, very much so including in Ireland, maybe because of its Catholic heritage.

Anyway I have probably given too much away there but the answer is of course: the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM). But you knew that of course! (If you don't believe me you can look it up!)

Its come into the news again because its seems to have got ensnared in modern Vatican politics.



The story begins after Pope Francis takes office and bends his ear to those who opposed the Pope Benedict era and the latter's favourites. One of these was the American Cardinal Raymond Burke - of proud Irish heritage of course - who was then the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, effectively the Chief Justice of the Vatican court system.

In the time honoured way of these things he was duly 'kicked upstairs' by being given the largely ceremonial job of chaplain to SMOM. (Of course the Pope's always have the right to appoint chaplains to various groups which are otherwise totally independent of the Vatican.) But instead of just kicking his heels there it is suspected that through his influence the Order has been more active in asserting traditional Catholic teaching in its work. This culminated in the dismissal of the No.3 man in the Order, Albrecht Freiherr von Boeselager, because it was alleged that he oversaw an SMOM agency that distributed condoms which is obviously against Catholic teaching.

Those in the Vatican who surround Pope Francis were in turn outraged by this and set up a special Vatican commission to investigate this sacking. The Order in turn naturally responded by pointing out their independent sovereign status, in truth they had many spats with the Vatican over the centuries and had long since established their independence from it, and refused to cooperate with this inquiry.

A few days ago the head of the Order, an Englishman called Matthew Festing, was duly summoned into Pope Francis' presence and, incredibly, resigned on the spot, so plunging this sovereign state into something akin to chaos.

Hence its a kind of coup d'etat in Rome with the second smallest state in Europe overthrowing the government of the smallest state! But nonetheless SMOM, and the Vatican of course, have quite an international reach with many members all across the globe so this is not some tiny chivalrous argument that we are talking about here, it could cause quite a scandal in some quarters anyway.

We await further developments with interest!
 


The Field Marshal

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If the vatican fails to recognize the sovereignty of the order of malta then other states have a case to withdraw recognition of the vaticans sovereignty.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
Twice in two days I hear of a coup d'etat...the other being in China circa the Tiananmen Square showdown.
 

Cruimh

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A perennial pub quiz question is what is the smallest country in Europe and maybe the world?

And if you are stumped the hints are that it is a tiny, but seperately sovereign, place inside Rome which really only houses a few buildings including this countries archives, spanning at least 900 years of its seperate sovereign history. And even though its tiny it has its own passports - including diplomatic ones which grant diplomatic immunity in many countries around the world -, observer status at the United Nations, currency, stamps, licence plates, etc etc all accepted as seperate sovereign issues by the 106 states with which it has formal diplomatic relations.

Although it is very small it has quite an international reach, but mostly in the religious and humanitarian realms nowadays although in the past it had famous armies etc. It does indeed still retain its small military corps and in fact its probably not widely known but as late as the 1950s it had its own airforce, admittedly this was mainly because the Italian army was using its seperate sovereignty to get around restrictions on its own airforce. In fact its insignia and flag are quite prominent around the world, very much so including in Ireland, maybe because of its Catholic heritage.

Anyway I have probably given too much away there but the answer is of course: the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM). But you knew that of course! (If you don't believe me you can look it up!)

Its come into the news again because its seems to have got ensnared in modern Vatican politics.



The story begins after Pope Francis takes office and bends his ear to those who opposed the Pope Benedict era and the latter's favourites. One of these was the American Cardinal Raymond Burke - of proud Irish heritage of course - who was then the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, effectively the Chief Justice of the Vatican court system.

In the time honoured way of these things he was duly 'kicked upstairs' by being given the largely ceremonial job of chaplain to SMOM. (Of course the Pope's always have the right to appoint chaplains to various groups which are otherwise totally independent of the Vatican.) But instead of just kicking his heels there it is suspected that through his influence the Order has been more active in asserting traditional Catholic teaching in its work. This culminated in the dismissal of the No.3 man in the Order, Albrecht Freiherr von Boeselager, because it was alleged that he oversaw an SMOM agency that distributed condoms which is obviously against Catholic teaching.

Those in the Vatican who surround Pope Francis were in turn outraged by this and set up a special Vatican commission to investigate this sacking. The Order in turn naturally responded by pointing out their independent sovereign status, in truth they had many spats with the Vatican over the centuries and had long since established their independence from it, and refused to cooperate with this inquiry.

A few days ago the head of the Order, an Englishman called Matthew Festing, was duly summoned into Pope Francis' presence and, incredibly, resigned on the spot, so plunging this sovereign state into something akin to chaos.

Hence its a kind of coup d'etat in Rome with the second smallest state in Europe overthrowing the government of the smallest state! But nonetheless SMOM, and the Vatican of course, have quite an international reach with many members all across the globe so this is not some tiny chivalrous argument that we are talking about here, it could cause quite a scandal in some quarters anyway.

We await further developments with interest!
Erm - is the Order of Malta a Sovereign State?

Pope seizes power from the Knights of Malta, brutally ending 900 years of their sovereignty | Coffee House

(Post 436 - http://www.politics.ie/forum/foreign-affairs/252784-pope-visit-ireland-2018-a-11.html#post10891941, and post 194 and 434)
 

GDPR

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We all could die at any time. I'm about to go the shops. I could have a car crash. That is the attitude I have always taken to "End Times" speculation. However that is changing, I wonder if not me will my kids see the Antichrist in their life times? God make Cardinal Dolan the Pope.
 

Roisin3

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Rubber meets the road ... Frankie gives Maltesers their marching orders.
 

parentheses

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They have an amazing history.

I read a book about the siege of Malta years ago. It was hair raising to say the least.




.
 

The Field Marshal

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Twice in two days I hear of a coup d'etat...the other being in China circa the Tiananmen Square showdown.
This one is different.

A regime has hijacked the small Vatican state leaving the aged and senile Pope Benedict xv1 a virtual prisoner.

This regime now seeks to expand its authority over the sovereign Order of Malta which is recognized internationally as a state without territory.

It is all to do with a big current internal spat going on between cardinals and bishops caused by the leader of the regime, one cardinal Bergoglio, who some cardinals elected "pope" on the mistaken belief that Pope Benedict had resigned.

He did,nt.
 

The Field Marshal

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Rubber meets the road ... Frankie gives Maltesers their marching orders.
Frankie is only a cardinal.

He has no real authority in the matter.
 

Lempo

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It is all to do with a big current internal spat going on between cardinals and bishops caused by the leader of the regime, one cardinal Bergoglio, who some cardinals elected "pope" on the mistaken belief that Pope Benedict had resigned.

He did,nt.
Was Pope Benedict himself on this belief, and if so, does his infallibility in fact make this to be the case?
 

The Field Marshal

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You're going to have to get over your disdain at 'Third Worlders' being elected Pope. More are coming.
For cardinal Bergoglio to be pope it would mean pope Benedict would have had to resign.

For pope Benedict to resign he would have had to do so fully in accordence with canon law

The second article of canon law is reproduced below please read it carefully:

------
Web site :Code of Canon Law - IntraText

Can. 332 §2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.
------


No reasonable person looking at the utter shambles in the Vatican city state could argue that pope Benedicts resignation has been properly manifested.

Benedict still lives there, wears papal vestments, is addressed as "Your Holiness', and uses the title of "Pope"

In addition his spokesperson state that he still exercises a papal ministry.


IT IS UTTER BUNKUM FOR ANY RATIONAL HUMAN TO ACCEPT THAT POPE BENEDICTS RESIGNATION HAS BEEN PROPERLY MANIFESTED.
 
Last edited:

The Field Marshal

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Was Pope Benedict himself on this belief, and if so, does his infallibility in fact make this to be the case?
Only Pope Benedict the XVI can answer your question.
 

The Field Marshal

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I think its time they built a Wall.
Oh but they have a great fantastic wall already.
The Vatican city state is surrounded by a gigantic wall about 14 metres high and 3 metres wide.

It shows up too the hollow criticisms of the illegal papal pretender, the cardinal Bergoglio, when he rants against other legally elected heads of state who want to built walls to protect their countries.
 

The Field Marshal

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They have planned this deviously I see; if I went to Vatican and asked to meet Pope Benedict the XVI they probably wouldn't oblige me at all.
Well he is not obliged to see you.
Nobody has an automatic right of audience with the pope.

You could try writing but Im convinced poor pope Benedict is now so old and tired that you would be unlikely to get a reply.
I urge people to pray for him.
 


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