You know the GDR?



DaraghM

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Tell me this Felixed: If the DDR was such a wonderful place, why are there thousands of bags stuffed with files that the Stasi felt compelled to desperately shred (some by hand) when the wall fell down? And why is that the residents of your workers paradise fled in their droves OUT of it as soon as the borders opened.
 

EastGalway

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felixed said:
I went to school, was in the army for three years and studied medicine.

Now it's your turn.
Did a PhD on the GDR. My PhD enjoyed some financial support from the NUI, but the grant had actually no bearing on the content of the thesis, which was based primarily on files produced by the massive East German state and party bureaucracy.

My knowledge on the GDR is based on more than a reading of ND or JW.
 

felixed

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DaraghM said:
... why are there thousands of bags stuffed with files that the Stasi felt compelled to desperately shred (some by hand) ...
To protect people from conqueror's justice. What was fully justified since then.
 

EastGalway

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felixed said:
To protect people from conqueror's justice. What was fully justified since then.
Again, another example of the type of argument used by revisionists of another hue.
 

DaraghM

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felixed said:
DaraghM said:
... why are there thousands of bags stuffed with files that the Stasi felt compelled to desperately shred (some by hand) ...
To protect people from conqueror's justice. What was fully justified since then.
:roll: Go take a look at your own file, see what kind of 'justice' the DDR was interested in.
 

corkman2007

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felixed said:
corkman2007 said:
Were they in the public domain during the DDR's existence?
Do you have any idea why a secret service is not named public service?
Yes. Do you have any idea what the word 'democratic' means? Why would a 'democratic' state need an organisation as extensive as the Stasi? Why would a 'democratic' state need the Wall or the Iron Curtain?

Let's face it felixed, the DDR was a giant prison, along with the rest of the Russian colonies that formed the Eastern bloc.

Your nostalgia for the prison you lived in is probably some sort of variation on the Stockholm Syndrome, or else you really are a repulsive little apologist for murder and repression.
 

Pauli

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Shankill Browser said:
Pauli said:
I lived in the eastern part of Berlin from 1991 to 1997 and my son was born in 1995. The DDR system of child care was still structurally in place and whatever else about the DDR, the system of child care was first class and of a standard and cost that young Irish parents could only dream of.
Would I be wrong in thinking that "West" German money was bank rolling this? Or indeed bank rolling a lot of other things to allow this care system to continue?

Pauli said:
I had been there a number of times before the Wall came down and East Berlin was definitely a place to visit but not to live.
This'll sound stupid, this is a ... I know a bloke who knows a bloke tale ... but perhaps you can give an opinion. I have no experience of Eastern Europe myself.
A friend who studied this topic, international relations etc told me that the vast majority of people behind the iron curtain had really no idea just how far advanced the "West" was. They had lived their lives in the understanding that they were at the pinnacle and when communism collapsed, they got quite a shock when they saw just where the "West" really was in comparison, economically, technologically, liberally etc.
I may have oversimplified her case but .... have you any thoughts on this?
SB, the East Germans did have an idea of life in the West since the West German tv service was beamed into the DDR and almost everybody could receive it. Only those in the area around Dresden and Chemnitz and areas south of that could not receive it. So they were aware of what was going on in the West but obviously the population were discouraged from watching it, and with the internal Stasi apparatus as efficient as it was, people ran a risk in watching it.

Regarding child care, there was, of course, a significant subsidy involved. My point was that the structure of the eastern system was still in place in 1995 and that system and its structure was of a very high standard. The DDR system was rotten and it was not a place most people would choose to live. My son's mother is an East German. So I got an insight into how life was for them when the Wall was up.

In the former east block, the DDR economy was made look good because the rest were so bad. However, when unification came, the Kohl government ring-fenced the big DDR state concerns and through a specially set up agency, the Treuhandanstalt, sold off these concerns almost exclusively to West German businesses. West German officials were brought in to run the Treuhandanstalt and this added to the East Germans perception that they were the subject of an acquisition rather than a merger. The Czech economy, for example, did not have such a benefactor and had to compete hard for investment. As a result it has been more competitive and more economically robust than the ex-DDR because it had to be.

If the history of the DDR interests you, I would recommend you read "The Saddled Cow" by Anne McElvoy (published by Penguin, I think) which is, in my opinion, a very readable and highly informative account of the place and it past. ( The title comes from Stalin who said of the Germans "Communism suits them as a saddle suits a cow")
 

culbair

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The Berlin Wall constructed to prevent emigration to West Germany. Border guards murdering innocent people who wished to flee. A police state where the Stasi reigned supreme. The Trabant car. Inefficient over manned industry. Pollution of the environment. The Berlin uprising of 1953 violently suppressed by Russian tanks. Over drugged athletes winning numerous Olympic medals. A Godless state. The tyrant Erich Honecker.
 

MookieBaylock

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You know the GDR?

yes.. i am sitting in bar in what-was-it right now.. bottle of radeberger in hand.. greets from kastanianallee and from where i am sitting, it looks a whole lot better now... communism sucks.. go read some milan kundera books, meine freund...
 
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Pauli said:
SB, the East Germans did have an idea of life in the West since the West German tv service was beamed into the DDR and almost everybody could receive it. Only those in the area around Dresden and Chemnitz and areas south of that could not receive it. So they were aware of what was going on in the West but obviously the population were discouraged from watching it, and with the internal Stasi apparatus as efficient as it was, people ran a risk in watching it.
Regarding child care, there was, of course, a significant subsidy involved. My point was that the structure of the eastern system was still in place in 1995 and that system and its structure was of a very high standard. The DDR system was rotten and it was not a place most people would choose to live. My son's mother is an East German. So I got an insight into how life was for them when the Wall was up.
In the former east block, the DDR economy was made look good because the rest were so bad. However, when unification came, the Kohl government ring-fenced the big DDR state concerns and through a specially set up agency, the Treuhandanstalt, sold off these concerns almost exclusively to West German businesses. West German officials were brought in to run the Treuhandanstalt and this added to the East Germans perception that they were the subject of an acquisition rather than a merger. The Czech economy, for example, did not have such a benefactor and had to compete hard for investment. As a result it has been more competitive and more economically robust than the ex-DDR because it had to be.
If the history of the DDR interests you, I would recommend you read "The Saddled Cow" by Anne McElvoy (published by Penguin, I think) which is, in my opinion, a very readable and highly informative account of the place and it past. ( The title comes from Stalin who said of the Germans "Communism suits them as a saddle suits a cow")
Thanks for this Pauli
 

THR

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All those people who have adulthood memories of the GDR are today middle-aged or quickly heading towards that age-group. Memories of the GDR remind them of the days when they were young. I can´t believe that anyone under the age of 25 would want to have the GDR back.

The offspring-party of the SED, the PDS, and later Die Linke still poll very high in many parts of the former GDR. There was one democratically elected parliament in the GDR. Elected in March 1990. Its sole purpose was to vote the state out of existence, which it did.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Yes I heard of it but I don't know a great deal other than that its answer to the KGB was the Stasi, and that thousands were machine-gunned trying to get over the Berlin wall. I think that the refusal of the US to agree to move east faster when they had an opportunity to get to Berlin before the Soviets contributed to the partition of Germany.
 

felixed

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corkman2007 said:
Yes. Do you have any idea what the word 'democratic' means? Why would a 'democratic' state need an organisation as extensive as the Stasi? Why would a 'democratic' state need the Wall or the Iron Curtain?

Let's face it felixed, the DDR was a giant prison, along with the rest of the Russian colonies that formed the Eastern bloc.
The anticommunist propaganda seems to be internationalized. I know, of course it is because it's sources are the same.

You know any country without secret service (only against bad, bad terrorists, I know)? You know any unsecured frontier between countries at deadly enmity?
 

Pauli

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FutureTaoiseach said:
Yes I heard of it but I don't know a great deal other than that its answer to the KGB was the Stasi, and that thousands were machine-gunned trying to get over the Berlin wall. I think that the refusal of the US to agree to move east faster when they had an opportunity to get to Berlin before the Soviets contributed to the partition of Germany.
Ft, try and keep the hyperbole in check. Around 192 people were killed trying to escape from the DDR into West Berlin, rather than "thousands machine-gunned".

BTW, the view of most Germans who are willing to express an opinion on the Second World War is that Nazi Germany was primarily defeated by the Red Army. There wasn't much the Americans could have done to stop the Red Army advancing as rapidly as it did in Spring 1945
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Pauli said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
Yes I heard of it but I don't know a great deal other than that its answer to the KGB was the Stasi, and that thousands were machine-gunned trying to get over the Berlin wall. I think that the refusal of the US to agree to move east faster when they had an opportunity to get to Berlin before the Soviets contributed to the partition of Germany.
Ft, try and keep the hyperbole in check. Around 192 people were killed trying to escape from the DDR into West Berlin, rather than "thousands machine-gunned".

BTW, the view of most Germans who are willing to express an opinion on the Second World War is that Nazi Germany was primarily defeated by the Red Army. There wasn't much the Americans could have done to stop the Red Army advancing as rapidly as it did in Spring 1945
From what I have heard on Discovery Channel or History Channel over the yrs the US was in a position to move into areas later taken by the Soviets earlier on - and indeed Churchill pleaded with them to do so - but they decided not to to avoid antagonising the Soviets. One of a number of questionable decisions made in the last yr of the war including the decision to cave in over democracy in Eastern Europe and the redrawal of Polish borders.
 


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