Zbigniew Brzezinski has died

eoghanacht

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Oh Zbigniew was much bigger than the Afghan campaign. Truly an enormous figure.

He more or less single-handedly created the Neo-Cons, who were drawn from former Trots, not Democrat Cold Warriors or Republican anti-Communists.

Hes the perfect example of becoming exactly what he beheld.

Thats the level he operated on. Not a comment which will get likes from Piesters, but its the truth.
I agree, he was a monumental figure in shaping US foreign policy.

But this is P.ie, it won't stretch beyond ten pages.
 


irish_bob

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I agree, he was a monumental figure in shaping US foreign policy.

But this is P.ie, it won't stretch beyond ten pages.
strange then he was so prominent within the carter administration which relative to every one since , was quite dovish
 

The System Works

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No better example of the butterfly effect.
No, this is a myth (or at least an over-simplified narrative) that refuses to die.

Firstly, there is no evidence that Bin Laden ever received training, contact or funds from the CIA. Nor did the major players around him in AQ.

Secondly, the mujahideen who received American funds through Pakistan were not the same as the Taliban. The Taliban (who also call themselves mujahideen) was founded in Pakistan a few years after the Soviets withdrew. Most of the American backed mujahideen ended up fighting against the Taliban during the Afghan civil war. Ahmad Shah Massoud, an American ally who fought the Soviets and then the Taliban was assassinated by Al Qaeda two days before 9/11.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani ISI did put American money into their own favoured mujahideen, some of them more Muslim Brotherhood oriented. The few Americans on the ground and in the know were warning about this at the time. Most direct American contact, though, was with the brillaint Ahmad Shah Massoud. Massoud was a victim of both AQ, who murdered him, and the western left (perhaps the more evil party!), who tarnished the image and legacy of him and his colleagues.

Of course, I doubt I'll ever get a reply to this.
 
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comet

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Thanks to Brzezinski Afghani women went from being elected representatives, scientists, teachers, lawyers etc. to public executions for wearing a bit of makeup. Way to go what a champion you were.

There are days in which I would like to believe in a hereafter, then I could take comfort in gravel face being spit roasted for eternity.
 

Levellers

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No, this is a myth (or at least an over-simplified narrative) that refuses to die.

Firstly, there is no evidence that Bin Laden ever received training, contact or funds from the CIA. Nor did the major players around him in AQ.

Secondly, the mujahideen who received American funds through Pakistan were not the same as the Taliban. The Taliban (who also call themselves mujahideen) was founded in Pakistan a few years after the Soviets withdrew. Most of the American backed mujahideen ended up fighting against the Taliban during the Afghan civil war. Ahmad Shah Massoud, an American ally who fought the Soviets and then the Taliban was assassinated by Al Qaeda two days before 9/11.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani ISI did put American money into their own favoured mujahideen, some of them more Muslim Brotherhood oriented. The few Americans on the ground and in the know were warning about this at the time. Most direct American contact, though, was with the brillaint Ahmad Shah Massoud. Massoud was a victim of both AQ, who murdered him, and the western left (perhaps the more evil party!), who tarnished the image and legacy of him and his colleagues.

Of course, I doubt I'll ever get a reply to this.
Utter nonsense. Until the CIA created this monster the only Islamist fascists operating was a small group in Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood).

Terror 'blowback' burns CIA | The Independent

The same mistake is now being made in Syria. The US armed and funded the 'moderate' Free Syrian Army who immediately defected to ISIS.

US-Backed 'Moderate' Free Syrian Army Factions Join ISIS Terror Group - Breitbart
 

Fritzbox

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No, this is a myth (or at least an over-simplified narrative) that refuses to die.

Firstly, there is no evidence that Bin Laden ever received training, contact or funds from the CIA. Nor did the major players around him in AQ.

Secondly, the mujahideen who received American funds through Pakistan were not the same as the Taliban. The Taliban (who also call themselves mujahideen) was founded in Pakistan a few years after the Soviets withdrew. Most of the American backed mujahideen ended up fighting against the Taliban during the Afghan civil war. Ahmad Shah Massoud, an American ally who fought the Soviets and then the Taliban was assassinated by Al Qaeda two days before 9/11.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani ISI did put American money into their own favoured mujahideen, some of them more Muslim Brotherhood oriented. The few Americans on the ground and in the know were warning about this at the time. Most direct American contact, though, was with the brillaint Ahmad Shah Massoud. Massoud was a victim of both AQ, who murdered him, and the western left (perhaps the more evil party!), who tarnished the image and legacy of him and his colleagues.

Of course, I doubt I'll ever get a reply to this.
You'll get a reply from me, you are completely correct.

Leonid Brezhnev was the father of the Mujahadeen - if we're not going to choose a native Afghan for the title.
 
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Analyzer

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A few stirred up Muslims was a price worth paying for the defeat of the Soviet Union, that's what he said.

Wonder what company he's in now.
Maybe he gets to meet his old chum "Tim Osman" ?

ZB advocated turning Afghanistan back 15 centuries in order to liberate Afghanistan.

His approach reminds me of the US military colonel who explained his actions by saying " in order to save the village we had to destroy it" whilst fughting the VietCong.

ZB was as much a murderer as those he supplied and funded.
 

Fritzbox

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ZB advocated turning Afghanistan back 15 centuries in order to liberate Afghanistan.

His approach reminds me of the US military colonel who explained his actions by saying " in order to save the village we had to destroy it" whilst fughting the VietCong.
But in the end it was the Soviet air force who would eventually set Afghan society back a few centuries by its non-stop 9-year carpet-bombing campaign.

It kind of remainds me of what they use to say of the USAF's carpet-bombing campaign against the Vietnamese - they were in fact, bombing the Vietnamese up into the Stone Age.
 

Analyzer

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Zbigniew was a true believer.
A believer in what, exactly ?

[video=youtube;kYvO3qAlyTg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg[/video]

Encouraging backward, superstitious, sexist, homophobic, child molesting warrior cult believers to spread around plenty of misery ?

No such thing as "let's try dialogue". No. Go and murder the elected hovrrnment if the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan because it seeks to advance gender equality.
 

Analyzer

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But in the end it was the Soviet air force who would eventually set Afghan society back a few centuries by its non-stop 9-year carpet-bombing campaign.

It kind of remainds me of what they use to say of the USAF's carpet-bombing campaign against the Vietnamese - they were in fact, bombing the Vietnamese up into the Stone Age.
The Soviets tried to midernise Afghanistan.

Incidentally many of the Afghans who also tried to bring their society forward, via left of centre policies, were educated at US universities.

They later found themselves being attacked by Washington back Wahabbists.

The Soviet invasion was a blunder, & possibly represented a panic at a developing civil war.
 

Fritzbox

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No. Go and murder the elected hovrrnment if the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan because it seeks to advance gender equality.
What the fük are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333

Operation Storm-333 (Шторм-333, Shtorm-333) was an operation that took place on 27 December 1979, in which Soviet Union forces stormed the Tajbeg Palace in Afghanistan and captured Afghan President Hafizullah Amin. An unknown number of Afghan palace guards were killed while 150 were captured.[4] Amin's 11-year-old son died from shrapnel wounds.[5] The Soviets installed Babrak Karmal as Amin's successor...

...He was captured alive by Grom troops, but semi-conscious, suffering convulsions due to interrupted medical treatment of the poisoning.[12] The exact details of his later death have never been confirmed by any eye witness. The official announcement of his death on Kabul Radio, as reported by the New York Times on 27 December 1979, was "Amin had been sentenced to death at a revolutionary trial for crimes against the state and that sentence had been carried out". One story at the time was Amin was killed by Sayed Mohammad Gulabzoy, a previous Minister of Communication until ousted by Amin, who was present with two other previous ministers during the assault to give credence it was an Afghan-controlled operation. Gulabzoy and Watanjar, the previous Minister for Defense, later confirmed his death.
 

Gwannow

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I happened to be in the US when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and remember saying to my hosts that it would be their Vietnam. Zibby, although working for a Democratic president was a conservative, in a time when there were rational conservatives in American politics.
 

Motti

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Zbigniew Brzezinski has died
Good riddance. He terrified minority Christian communities in the Islamic world through his shameless promotion of militant Islam. But his terror legacy continues.
 


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