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Zombies of Dublin: will the Junkies be a priority for the new Mayor?


Congalltee

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Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,211
Zombies of Dublin: will the Junkies be a priority for the new Mayor?

Adam and Paul, can be multiplied by the hundreds if not the thousands, around the streets of Dublin. Easily available cheap alcohol on prominent display in convenience stores, together with social welfare and returns from petty theft, and an indifferent police force, appear to have combined to ensure Dublin streets are filled with winos or their less aggressive cousin, the stoner.

This is a phenomenon which I have only observed in Irish and British cities – though they must exist elsewhere. The reason for them? Perhaps, our Victorian social class system where ordinary people just walk by, perhaps our national over indulgence of alcohol, or our revolving door prison system? Who knows? Fewer care.

Neither of the approaches from the Left and Right, carrot and stick, state/city led or charity based, appear to have led to any success. Nor has their been any semblance of political leadership on the issue. One gets the distinct impression, that government and drugs, the focus is on middle class school children, getting together respectable stats and the odd high profile drug catch.

But what about the junkies, winoes, drugees and Zombies who loiter around the city? Does anyone care, or is it a case of pay them enough social welfare to keep to themselves? Will the Mayor of Dublin do anything or will they just not be able to?





Adam and Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drugs.ie - Drug and Alcohol Information Ireland

There are 178,000 people in Ireland in Consistent Poverty (as opposed to the 610,000 people in relative poverty ie on less than 12k)
Combat Poverty - How many peopel are poor in Ireland?
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
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So I've heard ... The plan is to open clinics in cork and just push the junkies outta 'the pale' and down to the rebel county. I guess outta sight is outta mind!
 

borntorum

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May 26, 2008
Messages
12,805
So I've heard ... The plan is to open clinics in cork and just push the junkies outta 'the pale' and down to the rebel county. I guess outta sight is outta mind!
Why don't they move them to Leitrim? Nobody lives there anyway
 

eoghanacht

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33,340
What is your proposal to tackle the problem you have outlined in the OP?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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This is a symptom of chronic Government failure
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
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Its a symptom of a lot of people without respect for themselves. look at the 'hoods' in america. once a community development scheme is put in place people start improving their area and their minds and gain back self respect. the users and pushers stop or are pushed out.
 

absconded

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Jan 31, 2009
Messages
398
Good post Congaltee, the human garbage wandering and loitering around Dublin are practically encourgaged to be there. Walking Dublin by night alone I almost always keep a fist clenched. I don´t get that feeling in too many other cities. There´s a constant menace in the air, whether from the homeless/junkies/winos or indeed the drunkards who throng the place. A bit of law and order would be welcome for once. We´ve all seen it, and the majority of the population who are well behaved, peaceful and friendly shouldn´t have to suffer it.
For me, the zombies you mention are the greatest contributory factor in Dublin appearing to be a kip.
 
B

Boggle

This is a phenomenon which I have only observed in Irish and British cities – though they must exist elsewhere. The reason for them? Perhaps, our Victorian social class system where ordinary people just walk by, perhaps our national over indulgence of alcohol, or our revolving door prison system? Who knows? Fewer care.

Neither of the approaches from the Left and Right, carrot and stick, state/city led or charity based, appear to have led to any success. Nor has their been any semblance of political leadership on the issue. One gets the distinct impression, that government and drugs, the focus is on middle class school children, getting together respectable stats and the odd high profile drug catch.
Firstly, the problem is not unique to Ireland and Britain as i have seen it in most European cities I have visited as I have a tendency to walk around exploring anywhere I visit - though some do make an active effort to keep them out of tourist areas.

Secondly, who knows why so many flush their lives down the toilet. It could be a case that when you criminalise people, you condemn them to a life of poverty and that poverty leads to self destructive tendencies or depression which could lead to addiction.

You are correct in your analysis of the political situation regarding recreational drugs and I would venture the opinion that what we are doing isn't working so its high time we had a major rethink of what we are doing.
 

hammer

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Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
The only way this will get sorted is if they open a methadone clinic on Merrion Street :)

You dont see many junkies when your driving at 100 kmph in a Ministerial car.

Maybe take a walk up to Christchurch, Francis Street area.
 

absconded

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Jan 31, 2009
Messages
398
Firstly, the problem is not unique to Ireland and Britain as i have seen it in most European cities I have visited as I have a tendency to walk around exploring anywhere I visit - though some do make an active effort to keep them out of tourist areas.

Secondly, who knows why so many flush their lives down the toilet. It could be a case that when you criminalise people, you condemn them to a life of poverty and that poverty leads to self destructive tendencies or depression which could lead to addiction.

You are correct in your analysis of the political situation regarding recreational drugs and I would venture the opinion that what we are doing isn't working so its high time we had a major rethink of what we are doing.
It is always explained as society having "failed" them. I´m more convinced that the problem is caused by society tolerating them at all.
 

H

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Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
378
The Green/FFer's could have made a positive impact on this part of society during the "Tiger" years but of course all we had was a paltry bit of window dressing by FF for the various services with a total disregrard for the under class by the sleazy Greens (We are too busy saving the planet from Climate Change or whatever excuse they need to raise stealth taxes)

There is a growing drug problem in Dublin, the Gardai are both incompetent and helpless in the face of continuing gangland murders, Dublin City council only puts pressure on the Gardai to enforce 30kph joke traffic restrictions on the quays whilst ignoring the drug dealing outside of the civic offices.

Head shops were taking some drug money away from the dealers until the Concerned Drug dealers against Headshops have decided to blow up their various premises, all the time under the Keystone Cops Gardai watchful? presence?

I expect the neutered new Mayor of Dublin to do damn all except make the appropriate noises about the drug scene...Tsk!..Tsk!...lack of funds, must have new water charges, Refuse charges etc etc

We also now have numerous Romanian beggars at every ATM in Dublin as well as intimidating the elderley at bus stops etc. Will anything be done?

Not whilst this government is in power

We need an election to enable a have a fresh approach for the various agencies with some real strategies put in place to change the situation
 
B

Boggle

It is always explained as society having "failed" them. I´m more convinced that the problem is caused by society tolerating them at all.
Short of lining them all up against a wall, what can you do? If you want to incarcerate every alcoholic, whino and homeless person be my guest but I'm not too keen on footing the bill.
 
B

Boggle

The Green/FFer's could have made a positive impact on this part of society during the "Tiger" years but of course all we had was a paltry bit of window dressing by FF for the various services with a total disregrard for the under class by the sleazy Greens (We are too busy saving the planet from Climate Change or whatever excuse they need to raise stealth taxes)

There is a growing drug problem in Dublin, the Gardai are both incompetent and helpless in the face of continuing gangland murders, Dublin City council only puts pressure on the Gardai to enforce 30kph joke traffic restrictions on the quays whilst ignoring the drug dealing outside of the civic offices.

Head shops were taking some drug money away from the dealers until the Concerned Drug dealers against Headshops have decided to blow up their various premises, all the time under the Keystone Cops Gardai watchful? presence?

I expect the neutered new Mayor of Dublin to do damn all except make the appropriate noises about the drug scene...Tsk!..Tsk!...lack of funds, must have new water charges, Refuse charges etc etc

We also now have numerous Romanian beggars at every ATM in Dublin as well as intimidating the elderley at bus stops etc. Will anything be done?

Not whilst this government is in power

We need an election to enable a have a fresh approach for the various agencies with some real strategies put in place to change the situation
In fairness the greens weren't in a position to anything during the tiger years as they only got elected after it all ended.

As far as the rest of your post es though I'm generally in agreements with you.
 

toughbutfair

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May 28, 2009
Messages
9,744
we should send them off to one of the islands off our mainland. This will ensure they don't have access to drugs (no money so dealers won't try and reach them) and they are too uselss to find their own way back here. Cold Turkey will ensure they get over their physical addiction. Drop in some fishing rods, some seeds to grow food etc and they can become a self sufficient group of people on their own island with no drugs.
 

liamfoley

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Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
3,282
It is always explained as society having "failed" them. I´m more convinced that the problem is caused by society tolerating them at all.
True, I am part of society and I do not feel that I have failed the zombies. The truth is that people choose to take this path. It is not poverty and deprivation that condemns people to this state in life, if it was then we would have hundreds of thousands of people on our streets in this state. The people that choose to live like this choose not to change. They are a menace to society. I myself have been assaulted by one of them who tried to rob me. The best that can be done for them is that they are isolated from their substance of choice and they are kept away from the law abiding element of society. Because addiction is a lifelong state anyone who does not enter a 12 step process should not be entitled to any welfare, any children should be removed from their care. The Giuliani mayoralty of New York could be a good role model.
 
B

Boggle

True, I am part of society and I do not feel that I have failed the zombies. The truth is that people choose to take this path. It is not poverty and deprivation that condemns people to this state in life, if it was then we would have hundreds of thousands of people on our streets in this state. The people that choose to live like this choose not to change. They are a menace to society. I myself have been assaulted by one of them who tried to rob me. The best that can be done for them is that they are isolated from their substance of choice and they are kept away from the law abiding element of society. Because addiction is a lifelong state anyone who does not enter a 12 step process should not be entitled to any welfare, any children should be removed from their care. The Giuliani mayoralty of New York could be a good role model.
By all means strip them of their children until they are clean for a set amount of time as that makes sense. However, if you think stripping them of welfare will make a difference then dream on. All that will do is put people like me at heightened risk from addicts willing to steal to fund their habits.

There has to be a reason why people become this way and I suggest finding the root cause and doing something about it.

As for you not feeling responsible - its your fault each and every time ordinary hardworking people get criminal records for posession of the likes of cannabis as you support a stupid law. If that record ultimately results in him of her not being able to find employment and falling into worse drugs out of despondancy then what do you expect?
 

Catalpa

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Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
The Green/FFer's could have made a positive impact on this part of society during the "Tiger" years but of course all we had was a paltry bit of window dressing by FF for the various services with a total disregrard for the under class by the sleazy Greens (We are too busy saving the planet from Climate Change or whatever excuse they need to raise stealth taxes)

There is a growing drug problem in Dublin, the Gardai are both incompetent and helpless in the face of continuing gangland murders, Dublin City council only puts pressure on the Gardai to enforce 30kph joke traffic restrictions on the quays whilst ignoring the drug dealing outside of the civic offices.

Head shops were taking some drug money away from the dealers until the Concerned Drug dealers against Headshops have decided to blow up their various premises, all the time under the Keystone Cops Gardai watchful? presence?

I expect the neutered new Mayor of Dublin to do damn all except make the appropriate noises about the drug scene...Tsk!..Tsk!...lack of funds, must have new water charges, Refuse charges etc etc

We also now have numerous Romanian beggars at every ATM in Dublin as well as intimidating the elderley at bus stops etc. Will anything be done?

Not whilst this government is in power

We need an election to enable a have a fresh approach for the various agencies with some real strategies put in place to change the situation
Indeed the lack of Law enforcement in Dublin City Centre in pathetic - the Garda seem indifferent but I suppose there is no point blaming the ordinary Gardai 'on the beat' when the word from above is to go easy otherwise the usual PC types will be on their backs and stifle careers.

I really think open drug dealing and begging of any sort should be clamped down on ASAP.

I have never seen anything like the number of Roma beggars that we have on any other European city that I have been in!
 

liamfoley

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Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
3,282
By all means strip them of their children until they are clean for a set amount of time as that makes sense. However, if you think stripping them of welfare will make a difference then dream on. All that will do is put people like me at heightened risk from addicts willing to steal to fund their habits.

There has to be a reason why people become this way and I suggest finding the root cause and doing something about it.

As for you not feeling responsible - its your fault each and every time ordinary hardworking people get criminal records for posession of the likes of cannabis as you support a stupid law. If that record ultimately results in him of her not being able to find employment and falling into worse drugs out of despondancy then what do you expect?
Good luck looking for a root cause. The problem is that we have constructed a society where people think they are entitled to a certain bundle of rights without contributing to society. This, by the way, is held not just by the underclass but by those who have made it to government level and CEO level in the semi-state sector among others. The root cause is those who tell people that they are entitled to something for nothing. The vacuous 'culture' that is all around us is responsible. People get a record for possessing substances like cannabis because it is illegal, if you do not like that advocate for change, do not ask for sympathy you will not get it from me. I do not use it or any other illegal substance, I have friends and family that do but not look for sympathy from me because of that. There is the debate that links the use of soft drugs with the hard drugs. This is not the place for it but at least acknowledge that there is a debate. Then look at the whole debate that the trade in soft drugs is indeed linked with organized crime. You buy soft drugs then there is a good chance that you are funding the lifestyle of some of the gangsters that are shooting at each other. But again that is a bit off topic in this thread.
And finally, when it comes to the zombies, I would hazard a guess that none of these people have ever held a job and never will. I have worked with the homeless and I know that there are many people who have had jobs and lost them for a variety of reasons including addiction. I worked with people who tried to get their lives back in order, regain some dignity. But they had to make the choice, the problem is that many people are content with what they have. And these are the zombie scum of the thread title.
 
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